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	Team Fortress 2 Unlockable Ideas

	Obviously we’ve all thought about this a bit at one point or another. I thought the most interesting way of doing it would be to think up just one alternative to every weapon, device and ability in the game. Then I realised there are 29 of them, and did it anyway. I hadn’t originally planned on illustrating them - for reasons I hope will be obvious once you see my illustrations - that just kind of happened. Sorry. I’m more interested in ideas that would make you think about and play a class differently, than in trying to ensure everything is perfectly and exactly balanced. Partly because this is more interesting to talk about, and partly because I don’t think you can just intellectualise about balance and call the problem solved. If I’d never played TF2 and you just described it to me, I would have said the Spy’s near-perfect disguise system was absurdly overpowered, but today people groan that it’s virtually useless. They’re wrong, but still: there’s no substitute for trying this stuff. I also have some ideas about how this stuff should be unlocked, but they tie in to another major change I’d like to see, so that’s for another post. Engineer Shield Spanner: when whacking your own full-health structures, this thing builds up an uber-like protective shield around them that can absorb a few hundred points of damage before the structure itself is damaged at all. The Spanner can repair neither the shield nor your buildings, so once they’re up, there’s no point hanging around. Sappers take a very long time to eat through the shield, and don’t disable the building until they get through it. The Spanner can remove them, but again, not repair the damage. It can also add a much weaker shield to the buildings of friendly Engies. Why? For fatalistic Engies bored of baby-sitting. Once they’ve set their stuff up, the Engy is free to roam around setting up dispensers elsewhere, helping out other Engies, and flanking those who attack his own stuff. A shielded Sentry is resistant to many of the best ways of taking down an ordinary one (Sticky pile-on, point-blank Heavy, sap-and-stab) but vulnerable to attrition. Portable Sentry: mini Sentry that can never be upgraded past level 1, but which once built, the Engineer can pick up and carry with him. While carrying the Sentry, the Engy moves at 75% speed and neither he nor the Sentry can fire, but the Sentry is safe from damage. It takes one second to snatch up and three seconds to re-deploy elsewhere. If the Engy is also using the Shield Spanner, the Sentry’s shield is lost when he picks it up, but can be re-applied after deployment. Why? Lets you play a harrassment Engy: reaping kills by quickly erecting small sentries in unexpected places, and moving them before the enemy has time to strategise around them. This is often more fun to do, and to fight against, than holing up beind a level-three hitting it repeatedly. Mini Dispensers: Engie can build three smaller dispensers: one that only supplies ammo/metal, one that only heals, and a third that’s a booby-trap. The booby-trap explodes with the force of a crit rocket if sapped or damaged in any way, only damaging enemies. It looks exactly like a healing-only dispenser to enemies (so traditional dispensers are still safe to sap/attack), but to the Engie’s team, it appears as a cardboard box full of dynamite, with dispenser decals drawn on in crayon. Why? The constant need for metal to take care of your Sentry leads most Engies to put their dispensers directly next to their gun, dissuading them from setting up a useful recharge point for their team’s forward troops. Here, he can do this without sacrificing his vital metal income, and partially protect that forward station against Spies by associating a degree of uncertainty and fear with sapping them. Telepault: teleporter exit that launches the teleportee forwards and upwards, in the direction the Engy places it. The Engie sees the projected arc before placing, obviously, so he can see where they’ll end up. Teleportees are immune to fall damage until after they land, and trajectories that end in killer chasms like those on Hydro are considered invalid placements and disallowed. The nametag for the entrance pad indicates that it’s a telepault and, in addition to displaying its recharge progress, quotes something like “Safe landings: 3/5″. Players can crouch on the tele entrance to choose to be teleported normally. Why? I think the virtue of a Heavy being flung over a train is self-evident. Laser Pointer: replacement for the pistol - switches Sentry to manual mode while equipped, where it will not fire on anyone automatically, but will shoot whatever the Engy points the laser at when he clicks Fire. Why? Lets the Engy spy-check and prioritise targets better, at the expense of automatically firing on unexpected enemies, and of being ready to repair the sentry when it’s damaged. Neutraliser: techy shotgun firing sparkly blue electronic charges which defuse Stickies, knock off Sappers and drain enemy ammo - but do no damage at all. Defuses a Sticky in two shots at medium range, one at close (close enough to hurt if it went off). Sappers take four shots at medium, two at close. Why not… a flame-thrower Sentry! I think the real question is: why? Why not… an ambulatory Sentry! It kind of removes the strategic element of deciding where to put it. And would be rather costly to impliment. Pyro Hmphalm Hmphs: shotgun that fires napalm globs. They do no damage, but each successive shot slows the target slightly more, adds a few seconds onto their burn duration if you then ignite them with the flamethrower, and renders them unable to put out any flames by jumping in water. Needs reloading after every shot, and this takes a short while. Why? The Pyro shouldn’t have an effective long-range weapon, but could use a way to catch opponents, slow their escape to safety and force tougher opponents to seek healing rather than waiting for the flames to die. Hire Hmph: a longer, heavier fire-axe that always critical-hits against burning opponents, but takes twice as long to swing. Why? The Pyro could do with a satisfying way to end a fight, particularly when there are allies around who usually get the credit for killing those who would have burned to death if left alone. But it shouldn’t be easy - she/he’s got to get even closer than usual, to an opponent who knows he/she’s there. Hmpherno: flame-thrower with a more fierce but briefer burn, whose forceful stream can be used as a makeshift jetpack if pointed directly down. The force also means he/she cannot move forwards while firing normally, and while firing heat builds up in the weapon that will eventually cause the Pyro to explode in a large and dangerous fireball. Five seconds of uninterrupted fire is enough to blow him/her up. Ten seconds is enough for a nearly-full heat bar to entirely dissipate. Why? The Pyro needs a little more tactical flexibility, lends him/herself well to comedy, and was born for a firey suicide option. This also means (s)he can propel her/himself into an area quickly by walking into it backwards whilst holding fire - to which the drawback is hopefully obvious. Why not… a longer range flame-thrower! A class with its defining limitation removed is a class improved, as my grandmother used to say. Why not… smoke grenades! Not being able to see is fun! Why not… ignitable oil slicks! You spray an area with oil, then set light to it, and it burns for a while. Leads to exciting wait-around for the enemy team! Why not… the napalm rocket-launcher from TF! Then we could give the Soldier a flame-thrower, the Spy could have Sasha, and we could save everyone the confusion of having to pick a class! Heavy Luba & Kiska: knuckle-dusters, knock the target flying but never crit. Why? Pow! Tatyana: mini-gun with an electromagnetic coil built around its motor which sucks in weapons from fallen enemies (or friends) any time the barrel is spinning. The added weight leaves the Heavy unable to move at all while firing. He can still move while spinning the barrel. Why? Lets the Heavy perpetuate a winning streak by avoiding running dry on ammo, but hinders his rate of advancement so that it’s not easy to exploit this on offense. Sonya: very obviously stolen Scout Scattergun to replace the standard shotgun. Obviously in that the Scout’s ripped-off hand and forearm are still danging from the triggerguard. Why? I don’t have a good justification for this. Why not… an assault rifle! The most boring weapons in all of first-person-shooterdom! Much of TF2’s design philosophy apparently stemmed from the notion that one guy just firing a lot of bullets at another guy is about the least interesting interaction two players can have. Soldier Last Ditch Digger: broken trench-shovel whose damage and attack-rate are proportional to the amount of health the Soldier has lost. Why? Apart from encouraging unlikely comebacks, it makes rocket-jumping spade-attacks more effective. And fun things should always be made more effective. Imploder: rocket launcher whose blasts suck people in rather than knocking them away. The actual damage radius is smaller than a standard rocket, but the ’suck’ radius is larger than either. Why? Lets the Soldier cluster large groups of people into a tight space for maximum damage, but sacrifices his ability to juggle enemies, keep them at bay or rocket-jump - though some wall-climbing and ceiling-sucking is doable by firing the rockets above you. Skeet Shooter: shotgun which only and always crits on airbourne opponents. Can be drawn, fired and holstered by pressing Right Mouse, whichever weapon the Soldier is currently holding. Why? If you manage that, you deserve a crit. Why not… grenades! Hey, good idea! It looks like Valve completely forgot to put these in TF2, despite how fun it is to get killed by speculatively flung munitions bouncing arbitrarily around corners by trigger-spamming morons! Thank God we reminded them! Why not… heat-seeking rockets! Because aiming highly explosive projectiles to hit within a few meters of a target is still too hard! Not only should the modicum of skill required to play a Soldier successfully be removed, but it should be removed by an unlockable weapon that only the most skillful players will earn. Perfect! Why not… a rocket-launcher that’s more powerful but has to be reloaded more often? Reloading all the damn time is the least fun part about playing as a Soldier, and dying in one hit is the least fun part about fighting one. Let’s not exacerbate either. Demoman Not A Grenade Launcher: here’s an idea for the grenade launcher: REMOVE IT. It is a twat. The Demoman’s other weapon, the sticky launcher, is probably the single most devastating weapon in the game, the trade-off ought to be that he has no quick direct attack if an enemy gets past his sticky trap and confronts him. Instead, there’s no trade-off: he’s tough, and if he can aim worth a damn, he’s got a quick to use weapon that’s nearly as powerful as the Soldier’s rocket-launcher and litters the place with deadly spam fire if he misses - or just if he feels like racking up a load of talentless arbitrary murders. Why? Why would anyone choose to unlock the ability to not have a grenade launcher? That’s the beautiful part; they wouldn’t have to! This excellent upgrade would be automatically applied to all Demomen free of charge. Wee Creepers: sticky-bombs that roll slowly towards nearby enemies, faster the closer they are. If an enemy’s close enough, they’ll follow him at Demoman walking-speed (very slightly slower than most classes). He can only lay four at a time, and they stop for a while if shot. Why? Almost every situation involving these conjours an entertaining mental image. Why not? This would allow players on your own team to screw you over by luring stickies towards you. It’s hard to say how much of a problem that would be, because to an extent it would require the enemy Demoman’s co-operation. If you’re close enough to them to lead them at walking speed, he’s probably just going to blow you up straight away. The Good Stuff: alternate whiskey bottle which, if not yet smashed, temporarily adds 50 health when doing the drinking taunt - even if it takes him above his usual maximum. The boost decays over fifteen seconds, during which time the Demoman is also immune to fall-damage. The bottle always crits while the Demoman has been airbourne for more than half a second. Why? Bracing yourself for a good sticky-jump, whacking people at the end of it. Why not… that swingy dynamite he had in the first trailer! I’m only guessing, but I would think that made it too easy to take out an Engy, all his kit and everyone defending him without actually entering line-of-sight. The swinging charge-up animation was interesting, though - I wonder if you had to stay still during that. Scout Slugger: full-size two-handed baseball bat that does 150% damage, but precludes all other weapons. Why? It’s clearly an impractical trade-off, but I’d take it. Freakin’ Crit Magnets: pistol rounds that do no damage, but successively increase the chance that the next hit against the victim - with a weapon that actually deals damage - will be a critical. A full clip of direct hits gives a 100% crit chance. On close inspection, the projectiles stuck into the victim’s body are small nails each skewering a Post-It note with “Crit me” written on it. Why? It gives the Scout an option to be more of a team player, or to have the satisfaction of running at someone with his bat and knowing the hit will be a crit. It’s also kind of an interesting risk tradeoff to decide when to stop building up your next attack and actually make it. Nutcracker: leaner Scattergun that always crits when fired directly down on a target from above, but never crits otherwise and has to be reloaded every two shots. Why? Funny? I should clarify the name, actually, in case it’s a British idiosyncrasy: here, ‘nut’ means head, while ‘nuts’ means testicles. It is the former that this weapon proposes to crack. Sniper Hobbler: sniper rifle that reduces the victim’s movement speed by up to 50% if the shot hits below the waist, but only charges to halfway up the normal charge meter. Partially charged shots to the legs slow by proportionally less than 50%. Healing steadily restores movement speed. Why? Lets the Sniper be a help to his team in situations where he doesn’t have the time or skill to line up a perfect headshot. Croc: Larger kukri that always crits against Spies, never otherwise. Why? Vengeance. Shooter: a larger and faster-firing revolver than the Spy’s, to replace the SMG. Why? I’m forever out-gunning Snipers at medium range when I play Spy - I’m hitting them too often for them to snipe effectively, and their SMG has nothing like my damage output at that distance. Much as I love doing this, the poor Aussies could use a break, and some classic Crocodile Dundee one-upmanship ought to do it. Spy Man-Sapper 3000: useable on human targets - drains them of all ammo in a few seconds, and stays attached for five, or until an Engineer whacks it off. Target doesn’t get his ammo back when the sapper’s removed, he has to find more. Must be placed from behind, but does not break disguise. Why? Good for disabling whole groups of people without necessarily giving yourself away, can lead to comedy escapes from angry mobs of sparking melee enemies. Hack-o-Tron 3000: replacement for the revolver, can hack any Sentry in line of sight from 10 metres away. Hacking takes ten secondsish, during which the Spy must remain still, and at the end of it the Sentry will be reprogrammed to only attack its creator. The Engineer sees his Sentry spark green during this time, so he knows someone nearby is a Spy, and he only has to kill the Spy before the process finishes to abort it. The Spy can remain in disguise throughout, but since he can’t move without breaking the hack, he’s conspicuous for that. The Engy can destroy his Sentry at any time during or after the hacking process, the only disadvantage of which is, well, he’s destroyed his own Sentry. Why? Firstly, I like the idea of seeing your Sentry spark and having to scan everyone nearby to spot who’s not moving. It’s an easier task for an Engy than de-sapping, because he only has one objective, but the danger is more worrying: losing both his Sentry and his life. Secondly, it’d be fun to find a great place to do this from, and watch the Engy scrambling about above or below trying to find you. Thirdly, realising you’re not going to find the Spy and scrambling for the Detonate control panel before it turns on you could be pretty tense. It has to be only the Engy it attacks once hacked, of course, or noob Engies could ruin the whole game for their team by letting a level-3 Sentry get hacked right in their base. Identity Thief 3000: large knife that, when backstabbing, utterly shreds the victim and causes the Spy to quickly assume his identity. There’s a puff of smoke as usual, but it lasts only a moment rather than the several seconds that donning a disguise usually takes. The Spy cannot attack again with the knife until after this new disguise is assumed, so it’s slower for repeat-attacks. Why? For situations when you have someone on their own, but don’t know how long you’ve got until his team-mates show up. Disposes of the body and renders you inconspicuous in one quick move. Ghost-o-matic 3000: replacement cloaking device which, instead of rendering the Spy invisible, allows him to pass through enemies for ten seconds, and absorb incoming damage. During this time he can’t attack or sap, and enemy fire drains his Ghost charge rather than his health - so it won’t last long if he’s under fire. When his Ghost charge runs out, the Spy is vulnerable but still can’t attack for two seconds, and he gives off a suspicious spark - so spy-checking isn’t any harder. Ghost-mode also takes two seconds to activate, and regenerates fairly slowly when not in use. Why? This lets him slip through very hairy or chaotic situations where enemies don’t have the time to look for Spies thoroughly, but in which he’d be killed in the crossfire if he was merely cloaked. The kind of crossfires this device would let the Spy get past are also the kind where one least needs his Cloak. Identi-Kit 3000: replacement for the Spytron 3000 cigarette-case: it’s a device in the same housing which, when pointed at an enemy, tells you their name and health. If disguised, the enemy with your name is tagged on-screen at all times, the way Medic-callers are to Medics. The drawback is that you can only disguise by pointing it at an enemy and pressing fire, rather than selecting a class freely with the number keys. You can do this while cloaked, naturally. Why? Allows the Spy to identify and eliminate injured targets with his pistol, and lets him strategise around his namesake. The loss of the “Am I dressed as him?” ambiguity is more than made up for by the many “Oh shit, that’s the real Duncan Disorderly!” moments. Why not… a dummy weapon that lets you make it look like you’re firing while in disguise! This would only increase the believability of your disguise for the brief period before people realised that a disguised Spy can now fire like a real team-mate. Thereupon, you’d still get spy-checked, it would just be incredibly arduous and tiresome for everyone else to do so. Why not… a silenced pistol! There’s actually nothing terribly wrong with this idea, it’s just not very useful. Obviously shooting people from an unexpected angle is a core tactic of the Spy, and I love doing it, but I don’t think people are pinpointing my location using the directional audio of their 7.1 home theatre surround-sound setup. I think they’re just turning around to find out where they’re being shot from, and seeing me with their eyes. If, like the four thousand people who’ve suggested this, you’re proposing a damage decrease as a trade-off, I wouldn’t touch it with a barge-pole. Why not… a weapon that can be used while cloaked or disguised! Because… just shut up. Just go away and think about what you’ve done. Comment

	FunkyLlama: Mmm... I like these ideas... although the Ghost does seem to be absolutely rubbish. Pentadact: I guess I spent a lot of words talking up the drawbacks because I thought it would sound over-powered. Please mentally up the 'absorb a few shots' figure until this seems appealing. There are plenty of obvious tweaks you could make to cloak mode that would be attractive trade-offs: longer duration but longer de-cloak time; immateriality and invisibility, but no recharge; etc. I'm interested in something that would change the way a Spy thinks his way around obstacles more fundamentally. And something that would help me avoid the most frustrating situation as a Spy: when you're perfectly capable of evading detection, but the sheer volume of fire in your only available approach route renders stealth irrelevant. Charlie: Hack-o-Tron sounds like a great addition. I assume you remain disguised while it is in use? I personally believe the Sniper is in dire need of some upgrades. I think that something as simple as being able to run while scoped would be helpful. Pentadact: Oh, yeah, I seem to have delete the part where I said that. Sniper's a tricky one, because the general consensus is that he's already played too much. I.e. you have games where three guys insist on Snipin' and you're desperately short of some up-front firepower. The Hobbler was my attempt to make him more of a team player and more effective in the hands of less skilled players, since a lot of, er, less skilled players seem to like playing as him. Including me, in fact. I'm a terrible Sniper, but I can't resist filling the slot sometimes if no-one else is up for it. Alex Holland: The Portable Sentry and the Laser Sight are both winners, as is the Last Ditch Digger. I'd be all for the Slugger if it also meant you could finally bat-return demo grenades and stickies, with an overhand smash for crits. The scout could also do with some method of briefly distracting sentries - something like a baseball, which the sentry turns to fire at once it's thrown, giving the scout a chance to either slip by or start circle-strafing with the scattergun. I reckon this would stop intelligence-camping on 2Fort. I believe the Pyro is next on Valve's list, though. I'd like a weapon that lets you set yourself on fire for 30 seconds or so, then spread burn damage to enemies via direct contact - imagine the psychological effect of a burning Pyro running at you with a fire-axe. A fire-extinguisher would also be fun - melee damage to enemies, but will put out any burning colleagues. Or replace the fire-axe with a blowtorch, which has a miniscule range but always crits against buildings. This is slightly too fun a speculative game - I'll stop for fear of disappointing myself when the actual unlockables arrive. Pentadact: The Baseball Of Distraction would be great: right-click to throw it directly up in the air, then optionally left-click to bat it somewhere. You could slug it over a Sentry to make it turn round and gun its Engy to death if he's not paying attention. And doesn't have the Laser Pointer. Andrew: There's some good ideas there. I think the spy's new "absorb cloak" could benefit from an additional power; to pass through enemies as if they were allies, making it harder to detect. Without stealth, most people would be a little suspicious of someone walking back into your base, or even worse, on a defending team you'd see them come out of the enemy spawn, hehe. I do wonder if they will "rebalance" the demoman - it's a tough class to rebalance since unlike most others inexperienced people can do a ton of damage with it and is good for defense and offence. In any case, I'd love some of these weapons. I wonder what the state of modding the game is at, if players could add their own bonus weapons or something...hmmm! Mike: Some of these are extremely good. In particular, as you note, the ones that encourage fun play or unusual situations. The demoman ones made me laugh out quite loud, but I assume none of them were serious. In particular, the self-buff probably isn't such a good idea. I especially like the Scout bat. And yes, I'd pick it too. Jason L: I like the blowtorch thing, Alex, but I'd make it a thermic lance. Pentadact: Andrew: Yeah, that's what 'immaterial' was supposed to imply, but I didn't explain it properly. I've clarified it now, and changed the drawback a little. We could reduce the duration of that Demoman booze-buff: maybe just ten seconds, over which it slowly decays. The Demoman's not often charging into combat, so it'd primarily be for when he's about to Sticky Jump and wants to offset the health loss ahead of time. Rob: You avoided talking about balance, because you're right, it's an unknown science. But despite the coolness of these ideas, there's just too many of them. There's basically a limit to the number of THINGS you can have available to players, not just for practical reasons but because it's near impossible to build a decent tactical experience out of games with tons of weapons and possibilities. People just can't play fast paced games like Team Fortress 2 and multitask the possibilities of n player classes with n weapons/abilities. Arguably, this is what happened in Halo 3, as much as its playtested to hell and back (and still fairly decent), it's still a diluted and less pure version of Halo 2 (or the original, whichever is your favourite flavour. Team Fortress is just really well balanced, and adding new features isn't the way to go.. stick with it, refine it, people will play it for a few years then it will die. That's how it works. Rob: ..that said, I'd like to see that demo-booze implemented with full on screen-swaying drunkeness. It would be a short buff, increased health and relative immunity to physical injury like baseball bats, falling damage and the like. Pentadact: I guess your complaint is with Valve rather than me, since they've already announced their intention to do unlockables for every class. But for what it's worth I disagree. I don't know about you, but I really enjoyed TF2 long before I adequately understood it. It's one of the first things that appealed to me about it: there was just masses of crazy stuff going on. I'd be happy to find myself in that situation again, not really understanding the exact nature of every weapon being used, but having fun learning. A lot of it hinges on Valve's art guys' incredible ability to depict things in a way that communicates enough about what's going on. Even if no-one's told you what an Uber is, you have a sense that the big shiny shielded guys aren't about to fall to your Engy pistol. They're able to make a game clear enough that you don't have to understand it intellectually to understand it instinctively. They're not about to release 29 unlocks in the space of a few months. It's going to take them a while, and I think the plan is that by the time they reach the 'then it will die' phase of a multiplayer game's life-cycle, it'll still be changing in interesting ways. Pentadact: Ooh, good call on the fall-damage immunity. CloakRaider: I laughed unbelievably hard at the pictures, you are an artist! But isn't the fire axe slightly overpowered? I mean, you set them on fire until they lose 50 health from it, so all the pyro needs to do is set them on fire once and hit them with the axe. Pentadact: Heh, thanks. The Fire Axe is certainly an upgrade, like the Ubersaw, but it takes a not insignificant amount of time and clear-headedness to switch to a new weapon while at point-blank range to an enemy who's firing at you. And even if all goes well, you're left standing there with your axe out rather than being ready with an already-burning flamethrower for any other enemies who might be around. I've tried it a few times. CloakRaider: The engineer shield idea is awesome though. It would be cool if it regenerated slowly, maybe at the speed the medic regenerates health. The sentry doesn't seem to fulfill it's purpose at the moment, seeing as the name sentry suggests it is able to be left on it's own and protect an area, while currently it goes down very easily without an engy, to almost every class. Lack_26: I'd quite like to see a boomerang for the spy and a sentry gun that could be placed on the ceiling/wall. But your ideas are really good as well. Also for removing the grenade launcher I would love the ability to take a running landing from a pipe-bomb jump and tackle people on landing, the damage done proportional to the speed and of course, it would knock them down as well. Think of it, you could put some pipe-bombs down, detonate them flinging yourself horizontally before grabbing that ubered medic with you in a bear hug and you slide to a stop in a heap. It would be hard but really cool to do, I even draw a picture of it happening, http://www.vulomedia.com/image....._devil.jpg Charlie: I really like Alex's idea of being able to bat grenades back at demomen. I'm not entirely sure how Valve would implement that but it would be a great new dynamic. Pentadact: Nice. Wait, does he fly past the Heavy in panel two and hit the Medic? Why are there two guys on the floor in panel three? Charlie: the bat-back thing comes from a now-removed YouTube video that appeared to show it happening, and it remains a Widely Believed Fact that it can already be done. When our own testing in the office failed, though, I was sceptical. I had the chance to ask Robin, and he agreed that it was a cool idea, but that it doesn't happen currently. Lack_26: In the picture he flies towards the medic, then grabs the medic (in mid air) and then leaves him on the floor in a pile after sliding for a short bit. John: Oh God yes on the Inferno flamer, how amazing would it be to see an entire team of pyros arcing over 2fort at the start of the round! Chris Livingston: What a great post! I'd started something along the same lines but gave up because I just couldn't think of enough stuff to cover all the classes. Dante: If you want the demo's health buff to be for sticky jumping, why not make it just that? Making him immune to sticky and falling damage for the duration? I like the baseball idea too, although I think it should knock over anyone it hits, just for the amusement. Sentry Gun: I love the idea of the Laser Pointer, a cloak that allows you to pass through members of the other team, and the Skeet Shooter. The Napalm Globs wouldn't be that useful though. You state it'd be a way to catch fleeing opponents, but that's what the shotgun is for in the first place. Just flame someone as much as you can/is safe, and then fire on them with your shotgun. I've gotten about a quarter of my kills with the shotgun dealing the damage to kill, and most of the time the shotgun deals enough damage to let the fire damage kill them before they manage to run to a healing source. Also, for Tatyana, dropped weapons are usually in your advancement path. Most of the times I run out of ammo are because I was just spamming. Being rooted to the ground would just suck. I guess there'd be situations where it'd be nice, but even just the slow-speed strafe throws some people's aim off enough to reduce damage. I've dodged a good couple of long-range rockets with it. chronos[ha-g]: I originally mentioned this idea on one of Chris' blog posts: That flamethrower that shoots fuel you can burn? I thought of a much better alternative that's far more exciting. It still retains the pool of fuel burning thing, but has a far more fun application - Primary fire shoots fuel, which can stick to ground or enemies. Secondary fire is (literally) a kitchen stove sparker that lights up nearby fuel. That's the same as has been suggested. BUT, if the fuel is still in mid-air when the pyro hits the sparker, the fuel acts as a fuel-air bomb (Since it's nice and aerosolized) and explodes. Lights people on fire and damages them with the explosion, but the tradeoff is that it also damages the pyro. I can imagine a pyro inserting himself into an incoming wave of enemies and wreaking havoc - without surviving himself, either. It wouldn't be too overpowered, since if the enemies he's assaulting react quick enough they can kill the pyro more easily than ever due to the self-damaging nature of the weapon. Pentadact: Dante: Only to keep the logic relatively simple. Maybe the falling damage thing complicates that, but it's one of those details that the player doesn't urgently need to be told. Pentadact: Sentry: the point of the Napalm is to slow targets that are too far away to reach at all with your flamethrower. The prolonged burn once you catch them up and burn them is just an extra bonus. Tatyana would be strictly for defense, which is where I usually run out of ammo: I want to stay on the cap or cart to keep it safe, rather than waddle out into more crossfire to fetch fallen guns. You can still slow-strafe by briefly easing of fire but keeping the barrel spinning. You have to be a bit careful with advantages for the Heavy or Soldier, because they already do such a crazy amount of damage. An interesting path for Heavy unlocks that I didn't explore would be counter-measures: weapons that help him avoid getting nailed by Snipers and Spies so easily. I suspect the viciousness of those two common sticky ends are the reason he's one of the least-played classes right now. Mike: Thinking about these again, I think the pattern they'll follow will probably be 3rd Unlock = Melee Upgrade, and as you say on 1Fort it'll probably be an 'All Good' upgrade. It's more of a trophy than anything else. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!: I think the engy should get a portal gun in replacement for his teleporters. He could shoot one behind his sentry, then roam around, free to heal it whenever he wanted to. Or portal to hard to reach places to put the sentry. But I guess they might have to make it so team mates couldn't use it. Sentry Gun: Pentadact: Ah, guess those explanations make them sound a bit more reasonable. I usually waddle through areas mowing down the opposing team and advancing to their respawn/forward base, regardless what team I'm on. A counter-sniper advantage would be awesome, spies don't give me anywhere near as much trouble as those damn snipers. I can't think of how to make a counter-sniper attribute for the Heavy though. Definitely not a minigun that can accurately mow down a sniper from a distance, like some terrible suggestions I've heard of. Accurate minigun=100:0 K:D ratio. I agree with you on damage too. Damage rates and Crit rates don't need tweaking up or down (Okay, less crit rockets would be nice.) for Heavy or Soldier, they need something special. I'm just not inventive enough to think them up. thecrazyinventor: I really like the laser guided sentry idea for the engineer. I hope they'd add something like that in the next pack. :) Nanosheep: thats quite an interesting read, and i love your ideas to improve the classes. My only concern is that the complexity of some spy unlocks may hamper his mobility. Also, for some strange reason i want the spy to get a knife he can perform tricks with (from the trailers) Alex Holland: Dante: good idea, the baseball could perhaps do a fairly weedy amount of damage against other players - the ultimate weapon for a humiliation kill. Perhaps replace the bat with Bat & Ball, with right click to throw the ball up and a swing of the bat to hit it. Based on timing and aim, you could get all sorts of different trajectories. Looking at the Medic unlockables, they're all fairly minimal changes to avoid changing game balance too much (although any Scout players who've taken on a Blutsauger may disagree with this), so some of these ideas are probably a bit radical. I suspect the Pyro will just get a same-but-different version of each weapon, but I'd love to be proved wrong. Pentadact: "Perhaps replace the bat with Bat & Ball, with right click to throw the ball up and a swing of the bat to hit it." Hey, that's exactly what I said! "The Baseball Of Distraction would be great: right-click to throw it directly up in the air, then optionally left-click to bat it somewhere" "I suspect the Pyro will just get a same-but-different version of each weapon, but I'd love to be proved wrong" I've just heard hints to contrary, actually. But I agree - most of mine are far too drastic to be likely. That's why I didn't want to do a "Here's what I think they might do" post. Ten-High Charlie: I always wanted the Pryo's upgrade to be a Rocket Axe. Its like his/her regular axe, but with a miniature chargeable rocket attached to it. Hold down the fire button to rev up the tiny engine at the consumption of the pyro's fuel and let go to do massive damage. The longer fire button is held down the more fuel is consumed (say 1/3rd the rate of the flame thrower, not much but if held down for a while it could consume a good chunk of fuel), and when releasing an axe after a 5 second or above charge it would take a few seconds for the pyro to steady him/herself again to ready his/her Rocket Axe and to switch weapons. Ten-High Charlie: Or his axe upgrade I mean. Alex Holland: You're entirely right - I'd failed to read your post, and thought you were proposing that you could either pitch it forwards with the right mouse button, or alternatively hit it with the bat. I was proposing that the bat would be the only way to actually use the ball. The idea of nobbling a sniper with one of those from the opposite gantry on 2Fort is just lovely. Pentadact: Charlie, that sounds hilarious. Would the rocket propel it straight forwards, or would it be attached to the head so it spins? Either way, surely a winner. Alex, yeah. I was just thinking of situations where the Scout just wants to distract a Sentry as quickly as possible, so he doesn't want to have to wait (presumably on the spot) for the ball to come down - throwing it up would be distraction enough. Lack_26: Hmm, about the scout's 'Frickin crit magnet'. I think it might work better if they are placed by hand, on the person (this would force the scouts to use hit and run tactics while helping the team), as compensation I think the crit chance should be upgraded, since it is a bit more dangerous. But it would require balencing, so the scout doesn't just run up, slap it on a guy's face and shotgun him/bat him round the face, that would change the dynamic too much. Perhaps the extra crit chance should only apply to other players, then you could have a pair of scouts double team some poor guy. Jason L: Maybe a Post-It in one hand and an open stapler in the other? On the other hand, I feel an irrational yearning for any solution that allows us to use the phrase 'Hit him with the Crit Bat'. Sentry Gun: About the Freakin' Crit Magnets, since critical hits are determined when the shot gets fired rather than when it hits, how exactly would that work? Pentadact: Eh, we'd just fudge it: the crit buff applies to shots fired when the Crit Magnet is under your crosshair. Makes it harder for Soldiers, but it's not like they don't crit enough. Funnily enough, Lack, my first idea for this was a Post-It Note you have to be point-blank to pin to an enemy, and which gives 100% crit chance but only to other people. I changed it to a pistol so it would feel like a pistol unlock, nerfed the crit buff to compensate for the ease of application, then let the Scout self-crit-boost to as a bonus for now having to spend some time building up that crit chance. Ten-High Charlie: At Pentadact. I was thinking more of a super-powered regular swing, but after what you said having him lunge forward or run manically forward and shouting incredibly maiming who ever got in front of him/her would add some fun to the Rocket Axe. Nice one. Kireas: Nice list. I've linked to it on our clan website, so ya should get a few more visitors yet (wtfcountry.com). Incidentally, you've been stumbled. Enjoy the traffic XD Jason L: Rocket Axe: Xe should either be dragged forward by it at high speed, or spin like a dervish in whatever direction xe was traveling with the axe going around in a fiery blur - in either case, of course, screaming unintelligibly. I suppose the second is hard to animate amusingly from first-person. Alerdene: I rarely add comments to blogs, but I think your ideas have potential. Giving it a thumbs up on stumbleupon and I'm hoping to see one of your weapons in the game some day. Tom: I like these. I've always liked the idea of an anti-materiel rifle for the sniper--less damage to people, but destroys sentries, etc. roburky: Tom: Armour-piercing acid rounds for the sniper, maybe? Charging up deals extra damage to buildings, so at full charge would destroy a sentry in one shot, but does less extra damage to fleshy targets. It does melt most of the target's ammunition, though, so the sniper is still bad news for a heavy even if he can't kill him in one shot any more. With a nice green dripping effect on the target's ammo count to let him know. roburky: For the engineer I'd like to be able to build MORE STUFF. Running around dropping buildings everywhere and not bothering to defend them, just replace them later, is a lot more fun. So something that let you have multiple low-level sentries, or multiple dispensers etc, at the cost of being able to get a level 3 sentry. Sentry Gun: Snipers can already destroy level one sentries, dispensers, and teleporters in one shot. It'd be a fucking nightmare if they were even more powerful against buildings than they already are. Demomen and pyros give me enough problems as is. Hammer: I composed my own list. Some of it is on the same wavelength, others are not. Scout: Scattergun -> Nothing. Further increases speed and jump ability, but you don't get that Heavy-killing shotgun. Pistol -> Radar. Reveals nearby players, Disguised spies appear to be on your team. Bat -> Taser. Stuns enemy briefly, slowing them by half for two seconds. 30% slower to swing and less damage. Reason- Make scouts better at their main job (intel recovery, running away) and lessening their ability to take down REAL classes. Soldier: Rocket -> Lil Fatboy. One-shot for mass damage. Exactly what you said you didn't want. Stops the rocket spamming against single targets and sniper roosts. Also has a slow reload speed. Shotty -> m1 Garand. Bolt action, moderate damage, good range and accuracy. Shovel -> Bayonet. Used either on the Garand (right-click to stab) or on its own as a replacement. Slower and harder hitting than the shovel. Reason: Makes them less of a pain in the ass to fight (CRIT ROCKETS) but doesn't decrease their offensive capabilities. It would remove their rocket jumps, but that would be a choice on the player's part. Pyro: Flamethrower -> Greaser. Creates an ignitable oil slick. (Again, against yours.) Right click ignites nearby oil with a spark. Increase defense at expense of attacking use. Shotty -> I considered the flame rockets from TFC, but you make an excellent point against it. Kinda like your idea of a weapon that slows, but I would use caltrops. Fire axe -> Battleaxe guitar! Living out his fantasies. 10% extra damager, 15% slower, a new taunt sound (no more pretending) and catches on fire if used on a burning enemy, setting all subsequent foes alight. Reason: The pyro is fun but has major weaknesses. Slowing down fleeing enemies helps keep the kills yours and finish them off in style. Oil slicks would help them hold off against intel rushes. Demoman: Grenade Launcher -> Dynomite, exactly as in the promo. Two part explosion, low ammo. Good against SGs, bad against mobile foes. A good alternative to the launcher I think, changes the Demo's use slightly. Stickies -> Goo Bombs. Stick to buildings and all players. Hurts your teams stuff as well. Does less damage and knockback than the normal stickies. Picture this when considering: Scout bombs. Medics could remove them with a bonesaw. (Assuming they would get close enough to try.) Bottle -> Molotov. Burst into flames on a crit or upon death, whichever is first. Firey carnage, the suicide move Demomen should have. Alternatively, a trigger to the bombs all over the Demo's vest. Nothing like a good suicide bomb to piss off the other team. Reason: The demo is fun to play, wanted to make it more fun without unbalancing too much. Engineer: Shotgun -> Magnet shot. No crits, half of damage dealt also steals ammo as metal. Gives engies a reason to stop babysitting and go do some man's work. Pistol -> Bolt gun. Heal/build from a distance! Uses metal as ammo, does less damage. Wrench -> Steam-powered Turbo wrench. Faster swing speed for drastically reduced damage. Build faster, less effective in combat. Buildings -> Building with Bolts! Increase cost to build on walls or the ceiling. SGs on the walls increase strategic placement options, dispensers could be used as stairs, and teleporters could lead teammates to a death chasm doom. Also, give them back their damaging explosions from TFC. Reason: They need either more reasons to stop babysitting or better ways to do it. Heavy: Minigun -> Laser. No spread cone, fires a straight beam over long distance. Takes 3x as long to charge, ammo used twice as fast. (Standing on a dispenser is less effective.) Shotgun -> Bigger shotgun. Really, nowhere to go but make it bigger for this guy. Higher damager for slower reload and/or lower ammo count. Fists -> Brass Knuckles. Increase damage and crit rate for much slower speed. Reason: The biggest baddest dudes can only get bigger and badder. Sniper: Sniper rifle -> Tranq gun. Bolt-action. Knocks out target for a few seconds, no damage. Makes them more of a team player, emphasis on communication. Resitance to tranq drugs after waking up for three seconds. (To prevent spamming) SMG -> Auto-sniper. Has zoom, doesn't charge for power. Slower than SMG, faster than sniper. Machete -> Boomerang. Because nothing is better than racial stereotyping. Less damage, alt-fire throws a short distance. Always returns to thrower, can't attack while it is in the air. Reason: Trying to tone down the one-man sniper domination. Spy: Handgun -> Drug gun. Just like in TFC, alter their view and make them slower for less damage. Alternatively, steroids. Boost their power but make them see everyone as an enemy and able to hurt their teammates. Sapper -> Hijacker. Similar to your pistol upgrade, ten seconds to steal enemy building. Stolen buildings can't be destroyed by their original builder, they count as yours for all intents and purposes. Knife: I couldn't come up with anything else except maybe a garrote that would kill them silently. (Make their death not appear in corner, keeping your position secret. Maybe silence their in-game chat temporarily too. Only works from behind.) Disguise: Able to change weapons upon disguising? Adds another layer to your foolery, but not a drastic or game-changing one. Thanks for anyone taking their time to read all that. Hammer: Upon reading some of the comments, I think my Heavy Laser could do with a bit more toning down. Perhaps a reduced aim speed? (As in, lower mouse sensitivity? Not a percentage of the original, that would be too easy on high-sens users. Maybe something akin to a 0.5 on the scale, but that may be too slow...) I LOVE the rocket axe idea. Anything that makes the Pyro more of an axe-wielding maniac is fine with me. Old Schooler: Face it, the spy is going to get its old ability back, most likely in place of the cloak. Said ability, btw, is feign death-- causes the spy to drop dead or at least look like it has-- while staying in disguise. Can't do anything until he gets up, which takes a second. CloakRaider: You inspired me to make a small Gmod Comic out of your engineer ideas. Preview of the last panel. http://filesmelt.com/Imagehost.....665249.jpg WeakLemonDrink: Well, the Axtinguisher is close enough to your idea to class as 1 win for you: http://storefront.steampowered.....sage/1608/ Anonymous: Half of those sound like stupid ideas. Neoviper: Wow, just as I turn on steam today, I see in the update news one of the new pyro weapons. Incredibly, it was almost exactly the fire axe you described, except instead of half speed, it does half damage against non-burning opponents. The part about it always critting against burning players was there though. It's likely they were already planning this, but it's still funny that you put forward almost exactly the thing they're implementing. Mr.Meh: Wow, they're actually gonna have an axe for the pyro which does crits on anyone that's on fire. WeakLemonDrink: Actually, I think I prefer your version of Axtinguisher because the limitation makes more sense. Just look at the concept art for it - would you really think that'd only do half damage on a regular player? It's covered in barbed wire, for fuck's sake! No, it makes much more sense for it to have a longer wind up time. Then again, what makes most sense doesn't necessarily mean best game play. But... this is yet another example of my one and only problem with these new weapons. All the base level kit makes perfect sense in the context of the characters and what they do. The Medigun, for example, charges up health and builds up another charge to deploy a burst of invulnerability. That makes some sorts of sense... but why would the KritzKrieg charge up 100% crits? Same with the Ubersaw - why would it logically charge up your Ubercharge meter? It's just one extra level of logic removed from the original design and it bugs me. It has no effect on how playable and fun the new weapons are, but... eh. Neoviper: I don't really mind the illogical nature of the new weapons, and if you thought that the game was logical before the updates, try to figure out how shooting a rocket straight at your feet doesn't instantly kill you. The new weapons appear to be a nice way to reward the players that enjoy playing the class, and encourage people to try it out. WeakLemonDrink: Yes, I do love the weapons and they're great fun. And I was never arguing that TF2 should have realistic logic, I'm just saying that the new weapons seems to break the OLD TF2 logic a bit and thats's the one thing that bugs me a little. You can see the connection between a healing gun and being able to build up charge for invulnerability, but a healing gun building up charge for crits, or a Bonesaw building up charge, or a fantasy style axe that crits flaming people don't seem very natural when you consider the original, near perfect internal logic of the game. They feel like a forced way to add in a cool new feature, instead. I hope I'm explaining myself properly, but I feel I'm using the word 'logic' too much and generally babbling. Tickle: From the sound of the Valve message on Steam today, we'll be seeing that pyro axe with a guaranteed crit against burning opponents next patch. Who knows, maybe they read your article. Or maybe great minds think alike. Ixtab: I like a lot of these ideas but your suggestion for the pyro shotgun, that it slows people down, or the same for the sniper I think is a bad idea since if I was to be slowed down I'd just get very frustrated and probably end up quitting, it's supposed to be fun not annoying. Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to move properly. And to Hammer: I noticed in one of your ideas "Hurts your teams stuff as well." TF2 has been, on the whole, fairly free of greifing (occasionally you get the medics achievement padding or the engis building teleporters in stupid places (ie next to the entrance). Giving people the ability to hurt team mates is a bad idea. I do like the idea of the scout's bat and ball to distract a sentry or the little moving stickies, as much as I hate stickies the images of a sticky with big googly eyes slowly rolling towards the enemy is just too much. I like the idea of the spy disguise replacement aswell, the number of times I wonder if I'm disguised as that guy over there. And the irony of the trap dispenser would be great. I also agree with the comments that the crit me note should be a mele thing so you go staple it to them or slap on the post-it note, make it fairly large so people can see what's going on, a large crit-me note is fairly self explanitory and clarity is a major thing with TF2, like the paper mask for the spy. I also live in hope for pyros rocketing towards opponents propelled in a blaze of glory and then exploding in a rain of fire. I would probably spam that tactic and sit at my keyboard laughing constantly. Pentadact: Yeah, slowing a player's movement is playing with fire a little. But what's surprised me in the games I've played with a mecahnic like this is how fun it is. In Action Quake 2, all leg shots and fall damage slowed your movement to a horrible erratic hobble, and you had to stop everything to bandage up. Somehow it always evoked panic and hilarity rather than frustration. The Hobbler wouldn't be anything like so severe, but perhaps the slow should wear off shortly regardless. It wouldn't work conceptually, but I'd love it if the Sniper could instead fire rounds that create those jelly cubes from Unreal Tournament 3 - a larger Slow Volume for a more charged shot. There's a principle I believe in that killing is one of the least interesting things players can do to each other. Just as Valve recognise that bullets are the least interesting way to achieve it. Situations where your enemy can do something to you, and you have the chance to react to that, have more scope for rivalries, comedy, panic and fun. In a killing-only environment, most of your relationships with enemies are too brief to establish interesting emotions. The Nemesis mechanic is only necessary for that reason: within a single encounter, you don't have the time or scope of interaction to inspire personal enmity. Anyway, I'm not married to either of those weapon ideas, and I'm suspect Valve have a hard-and-fast rule about not altering movement speeds. Pentadact: CloakRaider: Awesome! Anonymous: Thanks! Hammer: I like the Magnet Shot. Sentry Gun: you may have a vested interest, but I'm with you on the anti-Sentry-Sniper issue. Hammer: As much as I would love to see the feign death come back, it simply wouldn't work. Reason? Bodies disappear too quickly. As soon as someone sees a corpse that isn't gone in five seconds they are going to shoot it. But I'd still love to see it back. Flag-camping on 2fort was a favorite tactic of mine in TFC. CloakRaider: http://filesmelt.com/Imagehost.....91df04.png There you go, I forgot the telepault, but I got most of them. Pyro Giblets: This must show how much of a newb at FPSes and game design I am, since a lot of the ideas I initially lobbied for for some of the classes have been rather passionately argued against here. Either way, I like a LOT of the ideas here. All that's left is to figure out how to tweak the mechanics. As far as the Engineer's unlockables are concerned: 3: Wrench - Shield Spanner I'll admit, the uber-shield gimmick sounds like a really quick way to trap people who're either occupied with bringing down a building, or blasting a building to bits just to advance. As it's written, if a second Engineer with a regular wrench is nearby, he can repair the damaged building while you can re-erect a recently-depleted shield, almost effectively creating super-buildings. As much as I love my Engineer action, this seems awfully unfair. It might be a better idea to have the shield only absorb 100% damage equal to the building's total life once fully erected, and have it gradually decay like the Overheal does (albeit at a slower pace), keep the no-repair drawback. It'll still force the Engineer to watch over his gear in case of malice every once in a while, but otherwise, yes, he's now free to roam about to do other things, too. 4b: Dispenser - Mini Dispensers Since the enemy cannot tell which dispenser was built by which engineer anyway, why should the booby trap look like the health dispenser only? Wouldn't it be funnier (and slightly more frustrating to Spies) to either randomize the booby trap's look, or allow the engineer to choose which mini the booby trap'll look like? Also, to lessen discouragement of Spies sapping the mini-dispensers, how about an exact 0.75-second delay before the booby trap goes off? If enemies aren't smart enough to get away from a sapped mini, they may pay the price. Those who move fast enough, though, MAY escape the blast. Pyro unlockables: 1: Flamethrower - Inferno Now THIS is a flamethrower!!! Instead of making the Pyro immobile while using it, why not just have it slow down to a crawl, equivalent to a spinned-up Heavy? Also, change the flame mechanics so that the spew acts more like a laser beam than individual flame bunnies hopping out of a nozzle - ensures more accurate direct blaze kills - naturally, at the expense of greater ammo consumption. Also, as far as it acting as a jetpack is concerned, maybe have that feature usable only while in the air, like how a rocket or sticky bomb jump only works if the user simultaneously jumps. 2: Shotgun - Napalm Gun Well, this seems like a good idea, but I was wondering if my suggestions will make this an even better all-around weapon. Perhaps give it two shots per clip instead of one shot, and instead of extending the burn time of your target once lit on fire, why not have the burn timer reset to its full ten-second duration whenever the shot lands on your already-lit target? Everything else not mentioned remains the same. One of the main uses for the Pyro's shotgun is to pick off enemies (or hurt them as much as possible) once they escape flamethrower distance, so I figured this would be a sensible way to extend the Pyro's shotgunning philosophy. Heavy unlockables: 1: Minigun "Sasha" - Minigun "Tatyana" Well, this certainly does seem like a nifty idea. However, as your comrades will need some of those fallen guns for ammo and metal too, maybe have the coil work only when spinning - when actively firing, the coil stops working so that bullet trajectories don't get altered by ECM. Also, perhaps shafting crit shots (except in cases of receiving a kritz uber) could help balance it out too. 2: Shotgun - Stolen Scattergun I don't see the Heavy's TOO BIG hands being able to manipulate a Scattergun, in all honesty, although I admit it makes for GREAT humor - perhaps this is revenge for the Scout stealing his sandwich? Soldier unlockables: 1: Rocket Launcher - Imploder Hmmm... I honestly think this'll be a more balanced weapon if the damage radius is left unchanged, BUT the actual damage output is 15% that of standard rockets, and GRADUALLY delivers damage over the course of 0.75 seconds rather than instantaneously (like SUCKING the life off rather than simply chopping it off). Since it's an implosion we're talking about, it'll make for good instantaneous temporary immobilization - like, say, 0.75 seconds of pure immobilization, followed by an immediate resummation of physics. Demoman unlockables: 2: Sticky Bombs - Wee Creepers Instead of the creepers instantaneously crawling towards a target, try this - the moment they're set, they'll roll towards an enemy within explosion range, as far as the initial explosion range takes them, stops for two seconds, then repeats this activity until either shot at, detonated, or the host Demoman is killed. Drawback: individual creepers are completely disabled after being struck twice (i.e. shot at or whacked at with melee weapon for removal), freeing up one creeper slot for the Demoman. It travels only on the surface it's stuck to (i.e. ceiling creepers stop creeping at the edge of a ceiling), and detonation requires half a second before KA-BOOM! For added humor, have the creepers spew informalities about the enemy team's heads full of eyeballs, and have them grunt unpleasantly when detonated. Scout unlockables: 1: Scattergun - Nutcracker Make it a slug-firing twin-barrel shotgun that, yes, delivers guaranteed crits when accurately fired from above, and is otherwise 15% harsher up-close than the scattergun. It fires as quickly as a pistol, reloads 10% slower than the scattergun, but there's only two shots, and the reload has to be made fully before it can be fired again. Also lacks the benefit of a spread-shot. 2: Pistol - Freakin' Crit Magnets Keep the pistol bit. Make the firing rate 15% slower, and have each landed shot deal only 2 points of damage, no crits. For every five shots landed, your one shot with the enemy in your crosshairs is guaranteed a crit, regardless of distance. (i.e. you unload 20 Post-It notes onto a particular demoman, your next four accurate shots are guaranteed crits). Only applies to you only. And instead of nails, why not make it thumbtacks? They're a LOT less conspicious. 3: Baseball bat - Slugger I was thinking of this - make the Slugger a wooden nailed bat. Each swing delivers 160% normal bat damage, but there's a 0.75 second cooldown for each strike landed (presumably for prying the bat off the target's flesh, courtesy of stuck nails). Sniper unlockables: 1: Sniper rifle - Hobbler I LIKE! It'll certainly make me play a more useful Sniper. Only thing I'd like to say is, don't make the mobility slowdown reversible only through healing. Yes, healing will reverse the slowdown very quickly, but otherwise make the slowdown speed harsher and last a certain duration according to its charge. Like, make the minimum slowdown period without healing 3 seconds, 70% full running speed with a snap hobbling shot, 6 seconds 30% full running speed (Heavy spin-up speed essentially) with a fully charged hobbling shot. If teammates are smart, a slow duck for 6 seconds makes easy prey. 3: Kukri - Croc Nah, don't make it 100% vs. Spies and 0% vs. everyone else. Make it 20% increased damage vs. Spies and 20% decreased damage to all else, and each hit forces a "blood trail" effect on the target for 4 seconds, as the bleeding blood will leave a trail behind for you to follow. Spy unlockables: 2: Man-Sapper 3000 Three seconds is too quick to drain a target of all ammo - I say, extend it to 6 seconds for a guaranteed full drain, remains on the body for 10 whole seconds or until Engie wrenches it off (two hits), prevents ammo pickup while it's still on. The target's back will sparkle like a standard sapped building, and target will also announce he's being sapped. 3: Identity Thief 3000 I dunno about you, but for one knife to completely dispose one body is a bit too far-fetched. Why not do this? The backstabbed victim's corpse will instantly be changed into enemy Spy (i.e. backstabbed red Demo instantly becomes blue Spy). Allows for greater fooling of allies into thinking you just took care of a Spy. Drawback: a puff of team-colored smoke surrounding the corpse and you will be in the air for two seconds before the disguises are fully assumed, and the ID Thief 3000 does its thing ONLY when disguised; disguise-less, it's a standard knife, but lacking insta-kill backstab. And I just stayed up way past my bedtime to post my critiques of your ideas here. Folly-some, that is. Hope you find my two cents something insightful. Sentry Gun: Another note about Snipers vs. Sentries: if a couple snipers (maybe 3, not exactly sure) all fire charged shots on a sentry at once, it's down. Instantly. Though I doubt anything short of clans would actually be able to organize this, and the loss of three people for that time wouldn't be too great, I'd imagine it'll work. Too well. All the damage would fit into an instant space between wrench hits. I figure the same thing would work with rockets too, though requiring more soldiers than snipers. Also, snipers can usually get an engineer from behind a sentry by the engineer not realizing he's got his arm sticking out the side. Pentadact: Cheers Pyro, some good thoughts there. I'll respond to the bits individually: 3: Wrench - Shield Spanner I meant to imply that other Engies can't repair the Shield-wielder's Sentry either - otherwise it's best for everyone to switch Sentries and that's a bit counter-intuitive. The Shield Engy also can't re-apply a shield once it's been shot off. The idea is for it to be a totally build-and-forget sub-class, so he can concentrate on harassing the Sentry's attackers instead of babysitting the Sentry itself. A steady decay messes that up a bit. 4b: Dispenser - Mini Dispensers I did consider randomising the appearence of the booby-trap to its enemies, but it means the Spy absolutely cannot afford to ever sap a mini-Sentry ever again: the penalty is too extreme. Right now it's also a little tricky to avoid sapping something that's near something you want to sap. A delay's not a bad idea, but that either lets the Spy get away clean every time or he doesn't: the former undermines the point, the latter doesn't solve the extreme-penalty problem. 1: Flamethrower - Inferno Yeah, making the Pyro very slow while firing is probably fairer. Nice idea about the flame-jumping, too: that would make it more intentional and probably more fun. 2: Shotgun - Napalm Gun Not married to the clip-size - that's a balance thing that would come out in testing. But the idea was primarily to reverse the Pyro's normal use of the shotgun: right now it's a finisher-weapon once someone's alight. I want a prep-weapon that lets you butter up a batch of bad guys before you fry them. And the satisfaction of knowing that you prepared that roasting so effectively that you don't /need/ to chase him: he's going down. I didn't so much want to extend the Pyro's shotgunning philosophy as provide a different one. 1: Minigun "Sasha" - Minigun "Tatyana" I'm not too worried about hogging ammo from the other classes: the Heavy's the only one who can't always afford to roam around to find more. And it's a defense weapon, so you're usually going to be close to your base. 2: Sticky Bombs - Wee Creepers I like your idea of making them vulnerable to shots, although it might undermine the uniqueness of the Engy's Neutraliser. I'm not sure what the rationale is in making the Creepers stop every two seconds - just balance? 1: Scattergun - Nutcracker Eep, sounds a bit devastating. I think giving the Scout a powerful ranged weapon might spoil some of the fun of the class: the need to get really close to people much stronger and more powerful than you. 2: Pistol - Freakin' Crit Magnets The idea was to let the Scout be a bit more of a team player, tagging enemies for pegging by his friends, so making the crit bonus only apply to him would undermine that. To be honest, I need to rethink my Scout suggestions in light of Whomper's clearly superior baseball idea. 1: Sniper rifle - Hobbler You're right: the hobbling should be temporary even if unhealed. 3: Kukri - Croc Good call on the blood-trail idea. I'd like to keep at least an increased crit chance, though: just increasing damage percentages is a bit abstract and behind-the-scenes. I want them to have the cathartic CRACK of a good revenge-crit. 2: Man-Sapper 3000 Probably right on the drain-rate. I'd like to let victims grab ammo if they can, though: it wouldn't unsap them, just postpone their impotence. "Spy sapping mah self!" 3: Identity Thief 3000 The idea is it's electrified or something: the purpose is mostly to feel awesome. Creating a dead spy body would be more convincing, and a nice nod to his old play-dead ability, but it probably wouldn't feel any better than a normal backstab. I really like the idea of emerging from a bloodbath in perfect disguise. Pyro Giblets: For the Demoman's Wee Creepers in regard to being countered by the Engineer's Neutralizer, I was thinking of this: perhaps make the Neutralizer the BEST method of dealing with the Wee Creepers, as each EMP blast is about the size of a Pyro's head - large enough for the Engineer to not have to aim EXACTLY right. (This is, of course, assuming the Neutralizer fires as fast as a shotgun.) I tried removing stickies with a shotgun, a pistol, and a melee weapon, and you'd either have to be really close or have exceptional aim to actually "hit" the sticky. And for its two-second movement delay, I figured two seconds is long enough for a target to move away if the Demoman doesn't detonate their bombs immediately, and it won't be so easy for an enemy to unwittingly lead Creepers straight into a stronghold. As for the Nutcracker, hmm... you may be right. The clip size and reload speed may not be enough of a drawback to balance out the new benefits. Perhaps make it sawed-off, so that there's an accuracy fallout over distance? For the Man-Sapper 3000, I suppose it'll be alright to let victims grab ammo while sapped (as it'll only serve to waste ammo for others). I just realized after waking up this morning that the Man-Sapper should only affect reserve ammo, not clip ammo, forcing sapped victims to really make their shots count before they run out. (Pyros with their flamethrowers and Heavies with their miniguns - two very threatening anti-Spy classes when played right in close quarters - are shit outta luck as a result.) Identity Thief 3000: oh, so it's a knife powered by magical technological doohickery! Instead of the victim's body being shred up, why not make it sparkle pretty (as the innards are boiled and fried) for a second before evaporating? I still think the insta-kill backstab effect should work only while disguised, otherwise it's a standard melee weapon; otherwise, you'll have a lot of face-stabbing Spies in knife fights suddenly not being able to attack because they're too busy donning a new disguise. Haggus McGee: E GAWSH - he was right about the pyro's axe. I like the sound of the new shotgun, but not the flamer - it neesds to be more normal. So do a lot of the others come to think of it. Great ideas which need to be adapted, the rocket launcher is spot on though - i couldn't previously think of a replacement for that. The nade launcher rocks. I'll take you on with it and show you how two shots can take you out. maybe three 4 pyro + soldier. the new nade launcher could have 6 ammo, less damage, weaker launch power, but like a bouncy ball that would explode after 5-6 bounces or impact on enemies - that could be quite funny Pentadact: I wasn't suggesting scrapping the grenade launcher because it's ineffective - just the opposite. But I've since decided the real problem is the indestructability of Stickies. I think all weapons should be able to blow them up, and the proposed Engy Neutraliser should be the only way to defuse them harmlessly. That way the Demoman would actually have to hide them - currently that's often superfluous. Caleb: I love all of your ideas (i am talking to everyone) Caleb: About the Demoman's melee (The Good Stuff) it should have a limit like: 1. You have about five drinks before the bottle is empty 2. The bottle breaks easier Krylzay: You have some very good ideas. I wish that valve would take these to heart when making their own. Darak: While the Hack O Tron seems nice it faces one big problem, spychecks ... I don't believe you can stay in one place for ten seconds and not be fired upon till dead, at least not on the servers I play on. Ghosting would be nice though as it would make disguises useful again by allowing for a time during which spychecks would conclude you are what you are disguised to be, of course they'd need to modify disguises slightly to turn most of them into something that can be believed since as is at least two are unpractical. Having said that I can't help but mention that if you go into the ingame screens to modify your weapons you can see which weapons are changeable for all classes and for the spy it is only the pistol and knife. Matt: The Hack-O-Tron sounds like a total failure. You'd never, ever, ever be able to successfully hack a sentry since an engie could just demolish it whenever he pleases. Rob: Hey, an idea about the spy, why not a knife that when used to backstab, kills without "showing" the little symbols on the top right of the screen? I know anyone who pays attention sees that stuff and begins spy checking a lot more because of it. I guess the draw back would have to be unusable in some situations, or maybe removing in the instant kill effect of the backstab? Torm: Well done with the pyro idea's. They weren't to far away from the weapons in the new update. Don't like all the idea's but your sarcastic suggestions are bang on why they should never be included. Pentadact: Matt, the idea is the Engy doesn't know exactly when the Sentry will turn, so he doesn't know how long he's got to destroy it. Since it's very hard to hack a Sentry without being discovered and killed, the Engy's got a good chance of finding you and killing you, so he's not going to want to blow his Sentry up as soon as it starts being hacked. As with everything, the figures are just illustrative - possibly much less than 10 seconds would be more appropriate in practise, but it's pointless to speculate. Rob: that could be interesting. I think it's often the stabbing and screaming sounds that tip nearby players off, so I'd also like it to kill them silently, or just very very quietly. It'd probably be less satisfying without the meaty sound and kill message to acknowledge your victory, but that might appeal to some mindsets. Hammer: Rob and Penta: How about a garrote? Silent kills, but unusable for normal combat? I think the benefit of no alerts is a fair trade for no backup slashing if you miss the kill. Fred: How about the Hack-o-tron,left-click let's you shoot(slightly less damage than the revolver) and right-click hacks? Ultrimo: The spy and sentry sparking idea is taken off Perfect Dark Zero am i right? lol Love the ideas and about the silenced revolver, it could have no sound and whoevers being shot has no notification he's being hurt, because people usually use that to find someone. Matt: Love all of it, but the enginneers portable sentry ^has^ to deploy if the engy is killed while carrying it. The lols are evident :D Timothy: If you make every class better, whats the point? It only increases the risk of unbalancing the game... Pentadact: By changing the game, you keep it fresh and interesting for years. Matt: Seconded, motion passed. Ultrimo: Nope, never played it. Ultrimo: In Perfect dark you were able to take over enemy proximity mines with a p90's secondary function which was a laser. There were also sparks on the mine to aware the original owner it's being taken over. Which is why i assumed you had played it since your idea was very close. David: I like the concept of either the spy or the scout getting some kind of map that shows enemy posistions and sentry guns and such. This would need to have some kind of restriction like having the map cover the entire screen while out. This would be greatly useful to the spy since I cant tell you how many times I've passed around a corner face first into a pyro. The Silenced PPK also wouldn't be such a bad change for a spy since the only way an enemy knows where they are being shot from is the red flash that appers on a certain part of your vision. (most people forget that this even exists, its all subliminal now) So get rid of the flash if you're being shot at by the Silencer. It would be made even more fun if being shot in the back doubled the damage. Ideas I REALLY like: Wee creepers. you're right this is a great alternative strategy for the demo; adds alot of good posiblilitys. Last Ditch digger. Assuming that at critical health he becomes a maelstrom of crits and damage. this is even made more fun by the fact he can hurt himself and can find some of the most interesting hidey-holes in the game. I imagine sitting above a group of unsuspecting enemys at 5 health and just dropping down and unloading on all of them, preferably accompanied by the signature soldier shreak. Hammer's exploding demoman bottle: any sort of kamikazee attack is downright awesome.

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