Mr Dan: I have to disagree with Hurley. For me Locke is the best thing in the series. He's the character you understand and empathise with the most, and as the series progresses he gets pretty crazy but you still understand him.
He knows the most about the island as well, or seems to. Whether this is because he's crazy or is genuinely in touch with the island never surfaces. I've the feeling something will happen with Locke though. I don't know why but i think he will end up joining The Others. The Others are a bit disappointing. They are just other people. I was hoping they'd be superhuman or something. Pentadact: We don't know they're not - the ones on the boat looked human enough, but so did Ethan.
I like Locke too, but less so when he goes mystical. They're clearly setting him up to represent people's suspicions that there's magic on the island, and Jack as the proponent of a scientific explaination. It makes me wonder if they'll ever come down on one side or the other - they must risk losing fans in one or the other camp. craigp: I agree: Locke is best. I think it has a lot to do with the casting, for me. Terry O'Quinn is a brilliant character actor. He really can handle that I-know-something vibe (see also: Millennium). I fully expect to see him show up in Deadwood (oh, so good) a "Mysterious Stranger". Of all the stories of Lost, Locke's, and Hurley's (and Walt's) are the most intriguing.
The Others: nah, I'm glad they're human. If ever Lost goes all "aliens from the Hell dimension" on us, it'll be sad day. Craig: I hope you guys reply to this because I'm all giddy and stuff. I've just finished watching the first season and there is a lot on my mind. What sticks out the most however is that Locke and Sawyer are my two favourite characters. For Sawyer, it's because the writer's really treated his story brutally.
And for Locke, it's the end of episode 4 entirely. That last three minutes made me want to cry because it was so beautiful. It's a testament to the talent of the writers that something so trivial as a character taking a moment to full come to as he stares at his bare foot, can be turned into something so bloody profound it's unbelievable. I also prey for the day I can watch a show with the wonderful Ian Somerhalder where he either doesn't die or get dragged off to some research facility. He's a brilliant young actor.
Craig: Locke is the one character I feel sorry for the most on Lost. Last week when I saw episode 4, I must have rewound the last four or five minutes a dozen times. And that isn't overstating it. My jaw practically dropped the moment the camera pulled back and revealed him in the wheelchair. It just turned everything on its head for me, and I was close to tears at his "Don't tell me what I can and can't do!" moment. I stupidly felt the writers had pulled their best moment yet with the character, only to discover where he got his scar towards the end. While the father episode didn't affect me as much as episode 4, it's that music and the scene of him in the car that nearly brought me to tears again. I have to echo what was mentioned upthread about Terry O'Quinn being a terrific actor. He stole all the scenes he was featured in Alias, and its the same with Lost.
Craig: Oh, and I WANTWANTWANT the Lost soundtrack. Michael Giacchino did some wonderful work - especially the aforementioned "Locke's Theme".
Tom EG: (Hello!) I agree with you on Hurley. What you're saying was best illustrated for me in an episode that ended on one of those poignant camera-sweeps-round-the-camp-as-music-plays moments. I had just that second thought, "Hrm, they've done this again," when the music stopped, and it was because Hurley's CD player batteries had run out. Made me smile.
Zeno: Hmm. I'm not sure I'm quite "feeling" Lost. Which is a surprise, because, after reading your take here, I was amazingly well-disposed towards the whole idea. I sat there for the first four or five episodes just WANTING to like it so damn much that it took me a long time to realise that, actually, I was just being irritated by it.
I think my main problem is that, whilst it's fine to have mysteries, none of the ones in Lost seem to me to have any dramatic weight. I can't quite shake the feeling that there's no explanation at all and that moments like the polar bear incident are just inserted by the writers to give you a vertiginous sense of "whoah... weird" without there being any narrative machinery, in the end, to back them up. I think if a TV series (or a film, or any narrative) is going to do something outre and strange, and create a lot of ambiguity, it has to underwrite that ambiguity by making you feel one of two things: either that you're being led somewhere, and that the destination will make sense; or that the events themselves have their own integrity because they come freighted with the tangible dread or despair or wonder that, say, David Lynch is able to give scenes in films like Mulholland Drive. It's subjective, but I just don't have that with Lost. I can't shake the feeling that someone's just making this stuff up as they go along. Actually, Lynch is a good example, because I never felt impatient with Twin Peaks, even though a great deal of that made no sense whatsoever. Lynch was hunting for big game, and even though the imagery was surreal, the dread and the horror of loss were real. Twin Peaks was an imaginary garden with real toads in it. Lost is sound and fury, but signifies nothing. But maybe it'll get better and I'll be back to eat my words... Craig: It does appear as though much of the mystery is being made up as the writers go along. But part of the fun comes in the fact the writers WILL have to start giving us answers. They see the show running for 5 seasons if it proves continued success, and we're about to start the second season (which opens with a giant piece of the puzzle falling into place apparently).
Craig: So, er... Episode 1 of Season 2, anyone?
Mr Dan: Don't feel right talking about the new episode incase i spoil it for someone on here. There is a nice discussion / use of ideas in this thread though:
http://forum.pcgamer... ...8;start=60
Craig: What a truly great opening to the season. It only took a couple seconds to sink in where we were, but it was still genuinely great to open with something like that.
Dabs: I don't even know where to begin with the Holy Crap!s. Desmond. Walt, dripping wet in the jungle, whispering to Shannon (which, apparently, if you play what he says in reverse is, "where's the button? No button's there." The bed Desmond got up from was a bunk? Was Ethan Rom (anagram "Other Man") the other man on the lower bunk? So brilliantly typical of Lost - they answer the question of "what's down the hatch" and pose a hundred more new ones in the process. You have to love it.
And that intro was fantastic. I was watching it with a couple of friends and when one of them said "Oh My God, that's the hatch" after the explosion shook the room, I had to double-take. Who else thought we were just watching a flashback of another (new) character?
Mr Dan: I don't think Desmond "found" the bunker. It just doesn't sit right. If he found it why would he seal himself in? Plus he seems far too comfortable to just be living there. Also isn't it very very coincidental that he and Jack have met before. We are left to think that Desmond was put on the island, and that Jack (and the others) have also been put on the island. Just Desmond knows more than them. For all we know Desmond woke up one day inside this bunker and is as ignorant as the rest of the islanders are about it all.
Craig: Anybody else notice that the person Jack's wife collided with and killed was Shannon's father? I read that on another forum but haven't checked it out yet.
Zeno: This is slightly off-subject (i.e, not specifically about the second series), but has anyone else come across a short story by pulp sci-fi maestro Gene Wolfe called "The Death of Doctor Island"? It appears in his (brilliantly named) collection "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories," published in the early 80s. There are lots of plot-similarities with Lost; castaways awake on an idyllic but eerily empty island, which they realise after a while is inhabited by an ambiguous "other" and presided over by a (probably malign) force of some sort. There are even mysterious hatches in the ground! After a while they begin to suspect that they're the subject of an experiment. There are big differences (there are only two castaways in the story, for instance) but I can't help wondering whether the rather bleak conclusion to the story might turn out to be the same as the solution to Lost. It's sufficiently obscure that the writers could be using it for inspiration without worrying about giving the game away.
I could be completely and utterly wrong though. Graham: Lindelof claims the writers do know where the story is going - including how it ends - so hopefully this will stop the plot wandering off into mystery after twist after mystery, endlessly, till Mulder leaves.
Re: Polar Bear - Think: Walt. As for season 2; good first episode. Really great beginning, really frustrating ending, and I can't wait to find out what the deal is with the Spine Healer, and the folks off on the boat. Oh, and I know it's open season on spoilers, but can we stick to just Lost spoilers please? I really didn't expect to have Six Feet Under ruined for me.
Dabs: Well that would definately make more sense. For the reasons you say, plus Locke pretty much said the same thing to Jack just as he was about to press "Execute". And since Locke and Walt have an unspoken, common deep understanding (the only exception I can think of being their views on opening the hatch), it makes sense that Walt would be warning against the same thing that Locke does. I suppose we'll see what the deal is with that button in due time - yet another mystery to ponder over.
Frohman: I've just recently gotten into Lost. My wife and I rented the first disc of Season 1, and after watching those first four episodes, I just scampered right out and bought the entire set, which we spent last weekend watching, entranced. We're both hooked, big time, like we've never been hooker on a network show before.
It's a wonderfully constructed show so far. The characters are both appealing and revolting -- the writers really understand that flaws, not positive character traits, are what make memorable and compelling characters. The Season 2 opener was fantastic. Instead of dodging the issue of what was in the hatch, as I thought they would, they crammed our faces in it and still managed to avoid answering any of our questions. Brilliantly done. Locke, too, is my favorite character, and yet I worry about him. He's glimpsed something the others haven't really seen: a pattern to the things happening on the island. I think he's really only seen a part of the pattern, however, which is dangerous -- it's like trying to reconstruct an entire dinosaur with a few toe bones. I suspect he is in for a rude awakening. I think it's been a remarkable show so far, and I hope it'll continue as such.
Frohman: Stupid letters not spelling what I demand they spell!
Anyway. I've listened to Walt's message a bunch of times, played backwards, and it sounds to me like "Don't press the button. The button's bad." The "Don't" is not actually there, but it's there, sorta. You can't hear it, but it's there. Hard to explain. Mr Dan: My predictions of Desmond just waking up one day to find himself in the bunker seem to be more and more likely after the current episode. Why he's there is a different matter though. Plus we are left to wonder what the timer on the wall is. Does it kill everyone on the island?
Pentadact: Agh! Spoiler! Oh, the poetic irony of my own liberalism somehow having consequences for me!
Actually that wasn't really a spoiler. I just haven't seen that episode yet. Mr Dan: Next time i'll post a 500 word synopsis of the episode. Just to make sure i actually do spoil it for you.
Tom EG: You know, that song has a real grip on me now. Whenever I hear it I get tremendously excited.
Tom EG: Also (and this is real E2 territory here for those who haven't yet watched it. DO! DO NOW!). Actually it's so deeply E2 I feel uncomfortable writing it close to the spoiler warning so I'm going to bury the actual content within this longer paragraph as a means to disguise it from the casual glance of a weaker eye. Well, it's not deep - it's pretty superficial stuff actually, but I feel the need to be talking about Lost right now. This is probably far enough. Quarantine: I love the way it teases you. At first I thought "what is Desmond's basically just a survivalist?" when he asked about the outside world, but then the numbers played a role and it seemed to shoot that to bits? And the very last scene with the others is such an evil thing to do after this many episodes and right at the end of one too. How can they? Why are they? What's HAPPENING. And who is "him"?
Craig: Is it just me, or is there a shitload of credits at the start of episode 2?
Craig: SPOILEY'S!!!
Did anyone notice the insignia from the bunker and Desmond's clothes on the shark?
Mr Dan: He must be the last surviving member of a team. Just from the inside of the bunker. There's more than one bed for example, and a ton of guns. You can only use one gun at a time, and one bed at a time.
Although the bunker doesn't really look recent. It could have been there for a while with a team in that Desmond has replaced. "Him" could be Desmonds replacement. The typing of the numbers could be nothing at all. Maybe it's just a test to see how long Desmond will do it before giving up hope. I reckon there is no disease. Or if there is a disease, the disease is actually what they call it when you turn crazy and think the island is alive etc.
Mr Dan: Well they do have maps of the island (from the French chick) so they know that there isn't a resort around the corner.
Plus if you knew there was some killer monster(s), giant polar bears and crazy people on the island you wouldn't really been in a rush to walk around it. I don't think Desmond has anything to do with The Others directly. As in, he doesn't know them or anything. But i do think he is connected to them. It makes no sense for all these people to be on the island and not be connected. Something connects them all, we just don't know what it is yet. It would be too coincidental for them all to be on the island for different reasons. What Desmond is doing in the bunker is connected to what the others are doing and thats connected to why they crashed on the island i'm guessing. Who are The Others anyway? Am i right in thinking they are the French womans research team? Craig: The shark! The shark!
Pentadact: Nuts. Did you ever see the face in the black smoke in the last series? It was kind of subliminal, but you could catch it quite clearly with a freeze frame. I don't know what the Black Smoke Monster will turn out to be, but I don't think it having a face is going to factor in. I also wouldn't be surprised if we're left hanging on the whole issue of why a shark got a corporate tattoo.
Craig: On the DVD, in the episode where Boone is tied up by Locke, if you listen to the audio commentary you hear the writers say "This is the most we've ever shown of the monster" when the tree is uprooted behind Boone and Shannon and they get chased.
Craig: Let's also not forget what Desmond asked Locke in the last episode:
Mr Dan: My friend rogue_pigeon just noticed this little blooper when watching the 10th episode on Channel 4.
http://www.hatelife.... .../lost1.JPG http://www.hatelife.... .../lost2.JPG Notice how they've used almost the exact same set for the scenes but changes a few cosmetics. Craig: Okay guys, I have an interesting fact I picked up about Episode 2 of this season. When Jin is running towards Sawyer and Michael he's screaming "Stay away! Stay away! Infection! Infection!"
Craig: Also, here's Amazon's description of the book Desmond made reference to:
Mr Dan: We still have no idea what the "incident" was that was mentioned on the projection, and the whole electromagnetic anomoly hasn't been explained either.
Maybe they were tampering with something that shouldn't have been tampered with. Maybe they found an alien spaceship under the island and somehow set it's self destruct off. You've just got to love Locke more and more with every trackback of his story. He's just had such a crappy life and it seems like the island has given him some hope. I really liked the part when he was telling Jack that he needed help and that he couldn't do the job alone. I wonder what happened to his girlfriend as well, it must be connected to his paralysis. Graham: Just wanted to point out Danger Island: http://www.imdb.com/... ...9/combined
NBC TV movie; was originally intended to be a TV show but the pilot never made it. Written by William Bleich, who also wrote Deadly Messages, which was directed by Jack Bender, and Jack Bender who is a Lost exec producer/director. Mr Dan: "..cast upon a shore of mysterious island they discover dangerous creatures, exploding bananas..."
Ah yes. Must watch out for those exploding bananas. Mr Dan: So...we still haven't met The Others yet and instead we've met a bunch of (angry) passengers. I find it interesting that a load of them have obviously died, added to the fact they live in a rundown bunker and Sayed suspects a nuclear meltdown i think they died of radiation poisoning.
Would explain the quarantine sign. Or maybe you don't die of radiation poisoning, maybe you just mutate and become a super human "other." Who knows? Glad to see it's back to character development. Also thought it was a nice poignant moment when we discovered Roses husband was alive.
Mr Dan: I have to disagree, i think would press the buttons in his position. They've got nothing to lose by pressing the buttons, they've got plenty to lose if they don't press them though.
I don't see why they can't just make a computer program to do it though. I think the video said that there was an incident which meant they had to push the numbers in every 108 minutes. So basically something has become unstable and the numbers stabilise it, or the numbers keep something at bay. I think a lot of the questions that have been answered in this series have took the show in a total different direction. It used to be that you could believe anything could happen in the show, but now it seems to be grounded in one place. Craig: Can I please give a hearty FUCK OFF to Michelle Rodriguez? I'm tired of her playing the same tough bitch role in everything she's in now.
Peter: I agree with Craig! Michelle Rodriguez sucks, and so does her character! She deserves a smack as a reality check!
Fermata_Juice: Zeno - I had the same though - I found this page looking up "death of doctor island" +lost on Google.
Craig: I just got my PC back from the shop after it went bugfuck crazy on me. Can you guys help me by telling me what BitTorrent software yoy use to... erm... accrue episodes of LOST? I was using BitTornado but everytime I donloaded something my computer would never shut down when I turned it off. It would just stay on "Windows is now saving your settings..."
Craig: Just downloaded and tried Azureus and it's doing the same thing :(
Jason L: It's probably due to bugfuck crazy, not Bittorrent per se. XP has a penchant for slowing down shutdowns, often without provocation and on the machines of the just (knowledgeable) and unjust (n00b) alike. Very few of the stories online seem to have happy endings. A coworker's machine had the same problem, and after a day of work I eventually had to resort to a reinstall of Windows. The only tip I can give is that the "freeze at 'saving settings'" seems to be fundamentally different from, and have more solutions than, the "freeze at 'shutting down'", so include that string in your Googling. Godspeed. Also, yes, Azureus really stands out from the pack.
Graham: http://www.utorrent.com/
Was using BitTornado till I found this a couple weeks ago. Includes pretty much all the useful features from Azureus, but gets rid of the clutter and uses only around 4MB of memory regardless of how many torrents you're running at once. Graham: Somewhere, at some point, someone involved with Lost - Lindelof or JJ - said that the entire mystery could be explain with science.
I figure this has to be some sort of general concept which, when applied to the show, explains the philosophy behind certain events. I can't imagine that there is a specific scientific logic behind all of it, down to the fine details. Thusly, I posit that the show is based around Newton's Third Law of Motion - 'Every action has an equal and opposite reaction' - and Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Bear with me. This is all fairly tenuous, probably. Basically, there seems to be a correlation between a bunch of events in the show, where while one thing happens to one character, the opposite happens to another. Examples: Claire looking to give up her unborn child, only to decide not to in the end. Michael, in an eerily similar lawyer's office, fighting to keep his child, only to decide not to in the end. Charlie not going to go through with conning someone out of their money, only to change his mind in the end and do it. Sawyer going to go through with conning someone out of their money, only to change his mind in the end and NOT do it. Shannon's dad being involved in a head-on collision with another driver, and being instantly killed. The woman involved in the collision was Jack's future wife, who would afterward mysteriously regain her ability to walk. The man who first heard the numbers and used them to win a game at a county fair being involved in a head-on car crash only to survive without a scratch on him, while the woman involved - admittedly in the same car as him - losing her leg. Locke mysteriously beginning to lose his ability to walk on the island again, only to regain it after Boone loses his ability to walk due to his leg being crushed (and then he eventually lost his life, admittedly). Sayid saving the first woman he loved from a firing squad in Iraq. The second woman Sayid loved, Shannon, getting shot in the chest mere moments after he told her he loved her. Hurley winning the lottery and becoming rich. Shannon losing all the money she had and becoming poor. Charlie and Sayid getting Claire's baby back from the French Woman. Walt being taken from Michael. There are loads of others I'm sure I'm forgetting, but you get the picture. As for the involvement of the Theory of Relativity: The theory was conceived in order to explain the fact that electromagnetic waves do not conform to the Newtonian laws of motion. And what's in the island? A big as magnet. Tenuous, but I can't help but feel there's too much here for it to be coincidence. Perhaps entering the numbers balances things out. If the numbers do something good, then the machine when activated makes sure to cause something appropriately bad to balance things out. However, the events caused by the machine aren't in effect on the island itself. So, for example, Locke losing his ability to walk (perhaps due to Jack's future wife regaining hers) might have been caused by the activation of the Numbers Machine. But now he's on the island, he can walk again. Hurley's bad luck? Caused by the Numbers Machine, but now he's on the island he's experiencing bad luck considerably less frequently - and any bad luck you could say he has isn't directly centered around him, but everyone on the island. Maybe there's more, I don't know. But this is my one big crazy obsessive theory, and I'm throwing it out there. Graham: Argh! That lack of line breaks! Posting this again, and trusting that Tom shall delete the previous entry.
Somewhere, at some point, someone involved with Lost - Lindelof or JJ - said that the entire mystery could be explain with science. I figure this has to be some sort of general concept which, when applied to the show, explains the philosophy behind certain events. I can't imagine that there is a specific scientific logic behind all of it, down to the fine details. Thusly, I posit that the show is based around Newton's Third Law of Motion - 'Every action has an equal and opposite reaction' - and Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Bear with me. This is all fairly tenuous, probably. Basically, there seems to be a correlation between a bunch of events in the show, where while one thing happens to one character, the opposite happens to another. Examples: Claire looking to give up her unborn child, only to decide not to in the end. Michael, in an eerily similar lawyer's office, fighting to keep his child, only to decide not to in the end. Charlie not going to go through with conning someone out of their money, only to change his mind in the end and do it. Sawyer going to go through with conning someone out of their money, only to change his mind in the end and NOT do it. Shannon's dad being involved in a head-on collision with another driver, and being instantly killed. The woman involved in the collision was Jack's future wife, who would afterward mysteriously regain her ability to walk. The man who first heard the numbers and used them to win a game at a county fair being involved in a head-on car crash only to survive without a scratch on him, while the woman involved - admittedly in the same car as him - losing her leg. Locke mysteriously beginning to lose his ability to walk on the island again, only to regain it after Boone loses his ability to walk due to his leg being crushed (and then he eventually lost his life, admittedly). Sayid saving the first woman he loved from a firing squad in Iraq. The second woman Sayid loved, Shannon, getting shot in the chest mere moments after he told her he loved her. Hurley winning the lottery and becoming rich. Shannon losing all the money she had and becoming poor. Charlie and Sayid getting Claire's baby back from the French Woman. Walt being taken from Michael. There are loads of others I'm sure I'm forgetting, but you get the picture. As for the involvement of the Theory of Relativity: The theory was conceived in order to explain the fact that electromagnetic waves do not conform to the Newtonian laws of motion. And what's in the island? A big ass magnet. Tenuous, but I can't help but feel there's too much here for it to be coincidence. Perhaps entering the numbers balances things out. If the numbers do something good, then the machine when activated makes sure to cause something appropriately bad to balance things out. However, the events caused by the machine aren't in effect on the island itself. So, for example, Locke losing his ability to walk (perhaps due to Jack's future wife regaining hers) might have been caused by the activation of the Numbers Machine. But now he's on the island, he can walk again. Hurley's bad luck? Caused by the Numbers Machine, but now he's on the island he's experiencing bad luck considerably less frequently - and any bad luck you could say he has isn't directly centered around him, but everyone on the island. Maybe there's more, I don't know. But this is my one big crazy obsessive theory, and I'm throwing it out there. Johnj: I'm afraid I'm about to blow the entire series out of the water. When Walt is in the airport with his dad, he asks for "batteries" for his gameboy sp. Clearly, a gameboy sp only has a battery, and its a lithium one at that.
You lose lost, you lose. :( Alex Holland: We've just finished watching Series 1 on terrestrial telly. We're really not sure we can be arsed with series 2. I love the character development, but all the pseudo-mystical bullshit is getting me down; this is particularly annoying, as Locke was one of my favourite characters before he dissappeared up his own third-eye.
So; should I watch series 2, or will it just piss me off even more? I also spotted the Gameboy slip-up, and it planted the seeds of skepticism in my mind. I then looked up the dates of the invention of dynamite and the dates of the abolition of slavery, and that doesn't sync either. The discoverer of Nitro Glycerine didn't blow himself up either. Ahh! The whole thing ruined by one simple research cock-up that the actor playing Walt probably could have pointed out anyway. Craig: I don't get the Gameboy comment...
Jason L: They're just harping on a boo-boo one of the writers made. The Gameboy in question is an SP, and one of the major upgrades from GBA to GBA SP was the change to an internal lithium-ion battery. You don't buy packaged batteries for an SP, you recharge it, so the kid asking for batteries looks silly to those in the know.
Jason L: Oh yes, also... I thought there was a link to this beguiling theory somewhere in this topic, but apparently not. Some or most is completely off the deep end - in an inversion of Heinlein's Razor I always prefer to believe "something went wrong" or "someone's crazy" over elements like Omniscient Telepathic Cyberscientist Hiveminds - but the magnetic field and satellite orbital stuff ties in...interestingly.
Jason L: 070214 - Well, that was a wonderfully frightening braintwist.
Finally, On Lost, by Tom Francis: [...] there was a time when Lost was so exciting I’d blog about it here. When a series loses its way, as pretty much all of them have to in the merciless [...]
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