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	Comments on: Werewolf And The Logic Of Lies	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Dominic		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-532112</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dominic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2014 02:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-532112</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another game you guys might enjoy, Tom and other comment people, is Two Rooms and One Boom, which my brother introduced me to.

You can download the rules online or buy the proper box. In short:

People split into two teams . There&#039;s a president and a bomber. 

Each team goes into a different room. If the president and the bomber are in the same room after 3 rounds then the bombers team wins or vice versa. 

A round is 3 minutes and each round gets a minute shorter. You vote for a team leader in each room and they choose a person to switch when the round ends.

You can show anyone your team, or your role or both.

That&#039;s a little dumbed down, but if you like mafia well worth a look!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another game you guys might enjoy, Tom and other comment people, is Two Rooms and One Boom, which my brother introduced me to.</p>
<p>You can download the rules online or buy the proper box. In short:</p>
<p>People split into two teams . There&#8217;s a president and a bomber. </p>
<p>Each team goes into a different room. If the president and the bomber are in the same room after 3 rounds then the bombers team wins or vice versa. </p>
<p>A round is 3 minutes and each round gets a minute shorter. You vote for a team leader in each room and they choose a person to switch when the round ends.</p>
<p>You can show anyone your team, or your role or both.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a little dumbed down, but if you like mafia well worth a look!</p>
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		<title>
		By: I Ain't		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509229</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I Ain't]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Feb 2014 23:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509229</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Once, when playing a protracted online version of this game, I was one of the werewolves. If I remember right, the other werewolf (we only had two) ended up not being so active, and I convinced him to let me publicly suspect him as part of my ongoing trail of deceit to keep the villagers (we had a lot of &#039;em) from figuring me out. I also at one point killed someone I was publicly friendly towards, in order to throw off suspicions. I actually managed to finagle my way into being one of the prime influences on who everybody else voted off, which is scary in retrospect. The person moderating the game ended up disappearing before we ever finished, but I would&#039;ve liked to have seen how far I could&#039;ve taken it (we&#039;d already voted out quite a few innocents).

Anyway, I greatly enjoyed your analyzation, I&#039;m curious as to how you&#039;d tackle the more typical version of the game, and I&#039;m sorry my first comment on your blog is so terribly self-indulgent. Looking forward to archives binging - you write some pretty interesting stuff.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once, when playing a protracted online version of this game, I was one of the werewolves. If I remember right, the other werewolf (we only had two) ended up not being so active, and I convinced him to let me publicly suspect him as part of my ongoing trail of deceit to keep the villagers (we had a lot of &#8217;em) from figuring me out. I also at one point killed someone I was publicly friendly towards, in order to throw off suspicions. I actually managed to finagle my way into being one of the prime influences on who everybody else voted off, which is scary in retrospect. The person moderating the game ended up disappearing before we ever finished, but I would&#8217;ve liked to have seen how far I could&#8217;ve taken it (we&#8217;d already voted out quite a few innocents).</p>
<p>Anyway, I greatly enjoyed your analyzation, I&#8217;m curious as to how you&#8217;d tackle the more typical version of the game, and I&#8217;m sorry my first comment on your blog is so terribly self-indulgent. Looking forward to archives binging &#8211; you write some pretty interesting stuff.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gwathdring		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509218</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gwathdring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 20:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509218</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Usually MOST of the players are villagers. You are right, though, in that villagers have little reason to lie from a mechanical advantage standpoint though some of the good-people non-villager roles occasionally have reason if you get into the more complicated roles. In general this is true for all non-werewolves, though ... the catch is that in most games, a Werewolf will just say they&#039;re a villager because half or more of the game consists of such folk and killing all of the villagers in the hopes that some of them were lying wolves isn&#039;t a very good idea.

Personally, I loved Werewolf as a curiosity the few times I&#039;ve played it. It&#039;s a fun party activity. I don&#039;t think very well of it as a game though--and not even because I dislike player elimination (which I do). One Night Werewolf is supposed to be a solution to some of it&#039;s problems but I find One Night Werewolf is even worse than werewolf proper, concentrating it&#039;s worst issues into a game that consists of *nothing but* those issues. It is a game of pure luck and charisma; there is very little tactic to it, you have very little agency (you can&#039;t show people your card, you&#039;re part of a voting system so you can&#039;t directly effect those decisions, etc), unless you have a special power an even then you have almost no data to go on in the game proper and even LESS in one-night werewolf were there are no patterns to observe over the course of a longer game--just pure lies and shouting and such.

In Two Rooms and a Boom, you have agency--your fate is somewhat in the hands of leaders, and charisma and luck matter ... but you can show people your card. You have something you can do all on your own that doesn&#039;t require anyone&#039;s permission or a vote. This seems like a small detail that can as easily screw you as help you, but that little bit of agency builds confidence in the mechanical systems and makes players feel more involved with the trust-based mechanics. The resistance carries over many of Werewolf&#039;s problems but diffuses them slightly; again players have little agency--only the villains can even choose whether to pass or fail a mission (not that you&#039;d want to fail a mission as a good player, but that&#039;s just it--the mechanics don&#039;t give you any viable choices to make there, whether or not you&#039;re technically allowed to do it (which you aren&#039;t)), but there&#039;s no voting. You are responsible for who you do or do not trust; your fate is only decided by  vote when it comes to approving of a leader&#039;s team (much as Two Rooms and a Boom allows you to vote for a leader, who then makes the final decision personally). The leader has agency, but that agency can be taken away if they lose too much trust; but it&#039;s yet more clever because you don&#039;t vote for the leader, you vote to approve the leader&#039;s decision (unlike in Two Rooms)--you vote based on less nebulous data than in Werewolf, and though it is kind of a toss-up between Resistance and Two Rooms as to which vote uses more nebulous data.

I like comparing these games because they all have the same sort of goal, and basically all of them do better than Werewolf in at least a few ways--containing the game, creating more usable data, giving players more agency, giving players mechanical systems on top of the social ones (See: BSG, SoC--the latter being particularly clever for reasons I won&#039;t go into since this is already a bit longer than I meant it to be). At the end of it, these games rely primarily on social mechanics which will play out differently in different groups of people, but precisely the same, really, from game to game with only somewhat meaningful differences when you swap around this or that role for this or that other one. Of all these games, though, werewolf (especially One Night) has the most mechanically difficult goal and thus is, to me, the weakest since the social systems are so variable as to be rather difficult to compare precisely. In Two Rooms, the end will always come down to a 50/50 shot even if you have NO data. In The Resistance, you can logically eliminate a good number of possibilities in all but the most specialty-role-filled, expertly executed games leaving BOTH teams a fairly feasible goal though it usually leans a little toward the spies in the classic game, I think, since the good guys have to have utter confidence in the final team. In Werewolf, the data in the game is pretty much entirely social unless you play with something as clumsy as the &quot;Guess who the werewolves are!&quot; card (The Seer? Guardian Angel? Whatever its called). Even when you know exactly how many characters of what sort are left ... you have *no* meaningful mechanical distinctions to draw between those players unless you&#039;re playing with a card that simply tells you the answer and even then you run out of meaningful data the moment multiple people claim to have that role and offer contradictory information. One Night, again, makes this even worse. Sure, you might know whose whatsit was swapped with whoms, but you have no idea what the whatsits were before you swapped them unless one of theirs is yours ... which would only really be useful and interesting if the player you swapped with could look at their tile so you could see what THEY did with THEIR data and fill in the gaps.

For a better example of the kind of confusion One Night tries to monopolize on, I highly recommend Mascarade  in which you frequently have no idea who you are but can check if you waste a whole turn to do so or bluff  and pretend you know who you are and hope no one calls you on it. Or Coup in which you know which two abilities you have access to, how many of each card is in the deck (thus the likelihood of anyone having a particular combination of two abilities), and can always bluff to access the other four abilities ... except that getting caught bluffing loses you a) one of your card/ability slots for the rest of the game and b) accordingly one of your two &quot;lives&quot;--the result is a bluffing game in which you have very little room to screw up especially since everyone is stockpiling money in order to remove your cards from you, too--bluff a defense against the assassin and you can find yourself out of the game, losing one card to the called bluff and one card to the assasin itself. Bluff that you HAVE the assasin and you can find yourself losing one of your cards instead. Both of these games are clever, short, easy to teach, one involves elimination and one doesn&#039;t, and they manage to do hidden-information (which always involves bluffing and &quot;no, do it to THAT guy, he&#039;s winning!&quot; type deflections and thus social elements) with much meatier mechanics that make for stronger, more consistent play and make victory through social means feel that much more exciting and cool and victory without charisma entirely feasible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Usually MOST of the players are villagers. You are right, though, in that villagers have little reason to lie from a mechanical advantage standpoint though some of the good-people non-villager roles occasionally have reason if you get into the more complicated roles. In general this is true for all non-werewolves, though &#8230; the catch is that in most games, a Werewolf will just say they&#8217;re a villager because half or more of the game consists of such folk and killing all of the villagers in the hopes that some of them were lying wolves isn&#8217;t a very good idea.</p>
<p>Personally, I loved Werewolf as a curiosity the few times I&#8217;ve played it. It&#8217;s a fun party activity. I don&#8217;t think very well of it as a game though&#8211;and not even because I dislike player elimination (which I do). One Night Werewolf is supposed to be a solution to some of it&#8217;s problems but I find One Night Werewolf is even worse than werewolf proper, concentrating it&#8217;s worst issues into a game that consists of *nothing but* those issues. It is a game of pure luck and charisma; there is very little tactic to it, you have very little agency (you can&#8217;t show people your card, you&#8217;re part of a voting system so you can&#8217;t directly effect those decisions, etc), unless you have a special power an even then you have almost no data to go on in the game proper and even LESS in one-night werewolf were there are no patterns to observe over the course of a longer game&#8211;just pure lies and shouting and such.</p>
<p>In Two Rooms and a Boom, you have agency&#8211;your fate is somewhat in the hands of leaders, and charisma and luck matter &#8230; but you can show people your card. You have something you can do all on your own that doesn&#8217;t require anyone&#8217;s permission or a vote. This seems like a small detail that can as easily screw you as help you, but that little bit of agency builds confidence in the mechanical systems and makes players feel more involved with the trust-based mechanics. The resistance carries over many of Werewolf&#8217;s problems but diffuses them slightly; again players have little agency&#8211;only the villains can even choose whether to pass or fail a mission (not that you&#8217;d want to fail a mission as a good player, but that&#8217;s just it&#8211;the mechanics don&#8217;t give you any viable choices to make there, whether or not you&#8217;re technically allowed to do it (which you aren&#8217;t)), but there&#8217;s no voting. You are responsible for who you do or do not trust; your fate is only decided by  vote when it comes to approving of a leader&#8217;s team (much as Two Rooms and a Boom allows you to vote for a leader, who then makes the final decision personally). The leader has agency, but that agency can be taken away if they lose too much trust; but it&#8217;s yet more clever because you don&#8217;t vote for the leader, you vote to approve the leader&#8217;s decision (unlike in Two Rooms)&#8211;you vote based on less nebulous data than in Werewolf, and though it is kind of a toss-up between Resistance and Two Rooms as to which vote uses more nebulous data.</p>
<p>I like comparing these games because they all have the same sort of goal, and basically all of them do better than Werewolf in at least a few ways&#8211;containing the game, creating more usable data, giving players more agency, giving players mechanical systems on top of the social ones (See: BSG, SoC&#8211;the latter being particularly clever for reasons I won&#8217;t go into since this is already a bit longer than I meant it to be). At the end of it, these games rely primarily on social mechanics which will play out differently in different groups of people, but precisely the same, really, from game to game with only somewhat meaningful differences when you swap around this or that role for this or that other one. Of all these games, though, werewolf (especially One Night) has the most mechanically difficult goal and thus is, to me, the weakest since the social systems are so variable as to be rather difficult to compare precisely. In Two Rooms, the end will always come down to a 50/50 shot even if you have NO data. In The Resistance, you can logically eliminate a good number of possibilities in all but the most specialty-role-filled, expertly executed games leaving BOTH teams a fairly feasible goal though it usually leans a little toward the spies in the classic game, I think, since the good guys have to have utter confidence in the final team. In Werewolf, the data in the game is pretty much entirely social unless you play with something as clumsy as the &#8220;Guess who the werewolves are!&#8221; card (The Seer? Guardian Angel? Whatever its called). Even when you know exactly how many characters of what sort are left &#8230; you have *no* meaningful mechanical distinctions to draw between those players unless you&#8217;re playing with a card that simply tells you the answer and even then you run out of meaningful data the moment multiple people claim to have that role and offer contradictory information. One Night, again, makes this even worse. Sure, you might know whose whatsit was swapped with whoms, but you have no idea what the whatsits were before you swapped them unless one of theirs is yours &#8230; which would only really be useful and interesting if the player you swapped with could look at their tile so you could see what THEY did with THEIR data and fill in the gaps.</p>
<p>For a better example of the kind of confusion One Night tries to monopolize on, I highly recommend Mascarade  in which you frequently have no idea who you are but can check if you waste a whole turn to do so or bluff  and pretend you know who you are and hope no one calls you on it. Or Coup in which you know which two abilities you have access to, how many of each card is in the deck (thus the likelihood of anyone having a particular combination of two abilities), and can always bluff to access the other four abilities &#8230; except that getting caught bluffing loses you a) one of your card/ability slots for the rest of the game and b) accordingly one of your two &#8220;lives&#8221;&#8211;the result is a bluffing game in which you have very little room to screw up especially since everyone is stockpiling money in order to remove your cards from you, too&#8211;bluff a defense against the assassin and you can find yourself out of the game, losing one card to the called bluff and one card to the assasin itself. Bluff that you HAVE the assasin and you can find yourself losing one of your cards instead. Both of these games are clever, short, easy to teach, one involves elimination and one doesn&#8217;t, and they manage to do hidden-information (which always involves bluffing and &#8220;no, do it to THAT guy, he&#8217;s winning!&#8221; type deflections and thus social elements) with much meatier mechanics that make for stronger, more consistent play and make victory through social means feel that much more exciting and cool and victory without charisma entirely feasible.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tyshalle		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509216</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tyshalle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509216</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You should try out The Resistance. It sounds very similar to this game, in that it&#039;s ultimately about on-the-spot deception and trying to figure out who is on your side and who is against you, but there are cards and missions and stuff that adds enough variables to the game to keep it from being as easily &#039;figured out&#039;, if you get me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should try out The Resistance. It sounds very similar to this game, in that it&#8217;s ultimately about on-the-spot deception and trying to figure out who is on your side and who is against you, but there are cards and missions and stuff that adds enough variables to the game to keep it from being as easily &#8216;figured out&#8217;, if you get me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: utahgamer		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509215</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[utahgamer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509215</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In my experience you should always have at least as many generic villagers as you have werewolves. This gives them at least the option to hide claiming to be a normal villager.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience you should always have at least as many generic villagers as you have werewolves. This gives them at least the option to hide claiming to be a normal villager.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Johnson		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509214</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509214</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s been a fair bit of academic study into the optimal strategy for this game. The last section of the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game) has some good links.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s been a fair bit of academic study into the optimal strategy for this game. The last section of the wikipedia page <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia_(party_game)</a> has some good links.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pentadact		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pentadact]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aha, thanks guys. Sounds like we had an unusual set up. I think not knowing how many of each role were out there, or not having a Witch, would change a lot.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha, thanks guys. Sounds like we had an unusual set up. I think not knowing how many of each role were out there, or not having a Witch, would change a lot.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Arctem		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arctem]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@alex, in most variations of the game, killing a player reveals their role to everyone, making the gambit of the werewolves lynching their own ineffective.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@alex, in most variations of the game, killing a player reveals their role to everyone, making the gambit of the werewolves lynching their own ineffective.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jaeson		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jaeson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 07:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another variant of this game that&#039;s cropped up recently (thanks to a successful Kickstarter) is &quot;One Night&quot;.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedalspach/1-night-onlyone-night-ultimate-werewolf-in-time-fo

In the One Night, starting roles can be swapped during the night phase, when everyone else&#039;s eyes are closed. For example, you may have been a Werewolf when the night started, but then the Thief came and replaced your identity with something else...but you don&#039;t get to re-check, or even know for sure if your card got swapped.

This adds an interesting layer to the &quot;truth or lie&quot; mechanic. For one thing, players who got to switch or peek at cards have meta information about whose roles have been changed.

Players declare their role publicly by taking a token. Since these tokens are limited by type, you may think you&#039;re a Villager but you might have to take a Werewolf token because (you would claim), &quot;Someone stole my token before I could grab it!&quot; 

There&#039;s only one round (and it&#039;s timed). Players only get one chance to pick someone to kill, and there are various victory conditions depending on who dies. There&#039;s even a Suicide role who WANTS to be killed by mistake. If he convinces you he&#039;s a Werewolf and the town murders him, he wins.

I only played two rounds of this so I don&#039;t know much about the best strategies. I did manage to throw everyone off by selecting Werewolf immediately -- usually people only take that token if all the others get grabbed first. People assumed I either WAS a Werewolf trying for a double-bluff, or I was the Suicide.

Actually, I was the Troublemaker... I figured running around town boasting I was a Werewolf was the kind of thing a Troublemaker would do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another variant of this game that&#8217;s cropped up recently (thanks to a successful Kickstarter) is &#8220;One Night&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedalspach/1-night-onlyone-night-ultimate-werewolf-in-time-fo" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedalspach/1-night-onlyone-night-ultimate-werewolf-in-time-fo</a></p>
<p>In the One Night, starting roles can be swapped during the night phase, when everyone else&#8217;s eyes are closed. For example, you may have been a Werewolf when the night started, but then the Thief came and replaced your identity with something else&#8230;but you don&#8217;t get to re-check, or even know for sure if your card got swapped.</p>
<p>This adds an interesting layer to the &#8220;truth or lie&#8221; mechanic. For one thing, players who got to switch or peek at cards have meta information about whose roles have been changed.</p>
<p>Players declare their role publicly by taking a token. Since these tokens are limited by type, you may think you&#8217;re a Villager but you might have to take a Werewolf token because (you would claim), &#8220;Someone stole my token before I could grab it!&#8221; </p>
<p>There&#8217;s only one round (and it&#8217;s timed). Players only get one chance to pick someone to kill, and there are various victory conditions depending on who dies. There&#8217;s even a Suicide role who WANTS to be killed by mistake. If he convinces you he&#8217;s a Werewolf and the town murders him, he wins.</p>
<p>I only played two rounds of this so I don&#8217;t know much about the best strategies. I did manage to throw everyone off by selecting Werewolf immediately &#8212; usually people only take that token if all the others get grabbed first. People assumed I either WAS a Werewolf trying for a double-bluff, or I was the Suicide.</p>
<p>Actually, I was the Troublemaker&#8230; I figured running around town boasting I was a Werewolf was the kind of thing a Troublemaker would do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: alex		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 06:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yep, if there were more players the wolves could quite easily hide among the villagers.

Also, nothing stops wolves from lynching one of their own to build trust.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, if there were more players the wolves could quite easily hide among the villagers.</p>
<p>Also, nothing stops wolves from lynching one of their own to build trust.</p>
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		<title>
		By: flatluigi		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509206</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[flatluigi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 05:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509206</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You seem to be playing a more complex version of the classic version, which might complicate things. Usually, the only power roles are the cop/&quot;fortune teller&quot; and the doctor/&quot;defender&quot; and adding more overcomplicates things to the point where the game gets a little weird or imbalanced.

The problem with claiming day 1 is that now the scum/&quot;wolves&quot; know exactly who the doctor and the cop are. They don&#039;t have to claim a power role and it would be _incredibly stupid_ to do anything other than claim vanilla/&quot;villager.&quot; Then it&#039;s a simple matter of killing the defender the first night and then killing the cop the next + then playing the best you can afterwards.

It&#039;s been a small trend for years on various forums I go to to play it as a play-by-post game, which allows the scum to converse amongst themselves in private, adding more strategy complexity and allowing for more power roles to get added to make up for it [of course, anyone not-scum must communicate in-thread publically, and the dead tell no tales at all]. Without the ability to communicate with your team by playing in public, though, I still think keeping it as simple as possible is best.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to be playing a more complex version of the classic version, which might complicate things. Usually, the only power roles are the cop/&#8221;fortune teller&#8221; and the doctor/&#8221;defender&#8221; and adding more overcomplicates things to the point where the game gets a little weird or imbalanced.</p>
<p>The problem with claiming day 1 is that now the scum/&#8221;wolves&#8221; know exactly who the doctor and the cop are. They don&#8217;t have to claim a power role and it would be _incredibly stupid_ to do anything other than claim vanilla/&#8221;villager.&#8221; Then it&#8217;s a simple matter of killing the defender the first night and then killing the cop the next + then playing the best you can afterwards.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been a small trend for years on various forums I go to to play it as a play-by-post game, which allows the scum to converse amongst themselves in private, adding more strategy complexity and allowing for more power roles to get added to make up for it [of course, anyone not-scum must communicate in-thread publically, and the dead tell no tales at all]. Without the ability to communicate with your team by playing in public, though, I still think keeping it as simple as possible is best.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mentosman8		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509205</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mentosman8]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 03:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509205</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Having read up on this post I understand your question much more. In this situation, it&#039;s still murky whether to claim or not immediately(which has various reasons I could talk at length about, I used to play a whole lot of mafia, different name for the same game, around forums, a site designed around the game, and in person). This setup is a case where yes, claiming day one can be a very VERY strong strategy, at least assuming the witch can use her potion on herself. I debated writing up a long description of why, but questions of night-priority and role specifics prevent me from being able to analyze the situation well. I will say, from my understanding while not being sure of these things, this setup may be brokenly town sided for a few reasons, but without knowing specifics I couldn&#039;t say for sure. But, certainly, if the witch can use her healing potion on herself, the town can not lose with a mass day one claim. If she can&#039;t, doing so is exponentially more risky.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having read up on this post I understand your question much more. In this situation, it&#8217;s still murky whether to claim or not immediately(which has various reasons I could talk at length about, I used to play a whole lot of mafia, different name for the same game, around forums, a site designed around the game, and in person). This setup is a case where yes, claiming day one can be a very VERY strong strategy, at least assuming the witch can use her potion on herself. I debated writing up a long description of why, but questions of night-priority and role specifics prevent me from being able to analyze the situation well. I will say, from my understanding while not being sure of these things, this setup may be brokenly town sided for a few reasons, but without knowing specifics I couldn&#8217;t say for sure. But, certainly, if the witch can use her healing potion on herself, the town can not lose with a mass day one claim. If she can&#8217;t, doing so is exponentially more risky.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cheeetar		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509204</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cheeetar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 03:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509204</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds like it might be a quirk of the number of players you&#039;ve gotten and the fact that you explicitly know which roles will be handed out going into the game. In the forum games I&#039;ve played of werewolf (although I often play it as &#039;Mafia&#039;), the exact composition is usually left unknown apart from how many baddies there will be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like it might be a quirk of the number of players you&#8217;ve gotten and the fact that you explicitly know which roles will be handed out going into the game. In the forum games I&#8217;ve played of werewolf (although I often play it as &#8216;Mafia&#8217;), the exact composition is usually left unknown apart from how many baddies there will be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The_B		</title>
		<link>https://www.pentadact.com/2014-02-02-werewolf-and-the-logic-of-lies/#comment-509203</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Feb 2014 03:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pentadact.com/?p=6798#comment-509203</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just as a quick, 3:30am brain and really should be asleep so not much consideration thought but I think it may be quirk of number of players. The times I&#039;ve played the forum version of the game, I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever seen a witch role before. I think having both a witch and a defender/Guardian Angel might be overpowering the humans just a tad, with your config.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a quick, 3:30am brain and really should be asleep so not much consideration thought but I think it may be quirk of number of players. The times I&#8217;ve played the forum version of the game, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever seen a witch role before. I think having both a witch and a defender/Guardian Angel might be overpowering the humans just a tad, with your config.</p>
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