I’m going to have to get that stupid fecking gnome across the entire level again.

http://snipurl.com/tav8h
http://snipurl.com/tav98

All in all, it’s subpar.

Personally, I think it’s a good thing when two people can talk about the same game and have totally different stories to tell. It’s just a shame that your story seems to be boring so far.

I will admit that the beefed-up AI seems to be more noticeable with the established infected. From what I can tell, the devs just taught the computer the best combo attacks from L4D1 versus mode. Smokers especially seem to be escorted by a puke or a pounce as a general rule now, which was more or less unheard of in the old campaign mode. The newbies do feel like a bit of a blank slate tactically.

@Tyshalle That’s odd — I found the AK to be a particularly solid choice. You trade the accuracy of the M-16 for way more punch. Even I, a habitual boomsticker, found it incredibly useful in areas like the running finale. It definitely blurs the line between shotties for short range, autos for accuracy (the latter half of which has always been pretty preposterous), but I think that’s what I like about the wider selection. The choices in this game are less obvious, and that makes me more inclined to experiment, which will keep the game fresh in the long run.

And yeah, Pentadact, those scenarios haven’t really popped up a significant amount for me either (except for the Spitter), but you can see the potential for it even in the demo.

I think a big problem with the demo is that the first map is extremely short, and the second map is probably like the demo for the first game in that it’s probably only 2/3rds of the full second map. and in both cases the environments don’t seem to really lend themselves well to the kind of situations that the special infected really shine in. It’s mostly extremely long, somewhat narrow corridors which mostly keeps people together, but if anyone runs off and someone gets pounced it’s not very hard to just turn around and shoot the Hunter/Smoker/Jockey/Charger off of you. Unlike most of the original L4D maps where there’s so many winding corridors and corners and turns and shit that you have to turn around and run after your friend to help them.

The Spitter isn’t about giving you straight up danger, or even damage. She’s about telling you where you can’t go. I think this will be even more spectacular in versus mode, but even in the regular co-op mode, this is pretty spectacular. When she spits at a doorway, pretty much preventing you from advancing, forcing you to fight off the horde, or especially during the end sprint where you’re trying to turn off the siren, she spit on the first platform up to the top, preventing us from getting up there, and forcing us to face off against the infinite horde for a while longer. It was intense.

Think about how it’s going to be during the new versus mode, where a Spitter can just spit on the generator, preventing you from filling it up for a while.

The Jockey didn’t come across very well in the demo either, I don’t think, but there’s an enormous amount of potential there. Sure, if the Jockey just leaps on a player who’s in the middle of his group then it’s not going to be a big deal. But honestly, who *is* difficult to deal with if he hits someone in a group? The only one I can think of is the Boomer. Everyone else is easy to deal with. If you get hit by the Jockey while separated from the group though? You’re screwed!

He can lead you into the Spitter’s pool of acid, he can run you into a witch, or a horde, or anywhere he wants.

And the Charger is meant to cause chaos, to separate the group and create panic. He works like shit in most of the areas in the demo, because it’s way too confined and it’s easy to kill him. But out in the open he can take a teammate quite far.

Anyway, overall I love the new guys. I think they’re even better than the old ones, who mostly seem tired by comparison.

“Can somebody please take away the pens?”

On whether these new infected will work well only in versus, with human intelligence behind them? Too early to tell. Valve can eke out a lot of mileage depending on how they designed the other maps. Imagine them on a map like No Mercy 5; they’d be terrific. Though, I can see right now how the spitter will work wonders in survival mode, at least.

It seems like Valve have been doing a lot of thinking about what they could do to break up the unit, or discourage splitters. I don’t know if that’s the right angle on new, interesting monsters; you don’t want to just get owned, and zombies are maniacs, not tacticians. The skill of a good “director” in a zombie flick is making it seem like the contrived obstacles are natural parts of this chaotic disaster. When the opposition is perfectly balanced, it’s forgettable. When it’s just a little too much, it’s hilarious.

Anyone think the designs are pretty much resigned to working well only in versus mode? Ie, are Valve letting the players take the place of good ai?

She could instead spit a viscous and highly flammable liquid that doesn’t hurt you, but slows you down with its stickiness. After a second or two, she ignites it. If you’re still stuck, you’re caught alight, which is going to suck for you. But if you get out quickly enough, you’re unharmed. Since getting hit doesn’t automatically mean damage, they could afford to have her spit larger gobs, more often, or make her tougher. Getting spat would happen more often and could lead to “Eek, I’ve gotta run into that horde of zombs to get out of this stuff” moments. That can happen already, but by the time it does you’re already fucked, so Valve can’t afford to make it easy for her to get you.

I’d also like to tweak the jockey. I love the theory, but in practise he never steers you more than a few steps in a direction you were already heading before someone shoots him off, so they’ve made him do constant damage to you to make him effective. I’d like it if he did no damage, but caused you to sprint forwards incredibly fast. You’d retain some steering control, but if you steered yourself into a wall, the Jockey would have the ability to jerk you around and ride you off in the opposite direction, leading to much drunken lurching. Basically I’d like it so that if he wasn’t caught immediately, you were going for a long and dangerous ride.

Also, apparently toilet stalls can act as hero closets.

Also, maybe you’re too good at the game? I guess that equates to poor balancing. How could the spitter act to be more of an interesting threat?

Agreed it’s a massive shame you can’t use them as weapons though.

Also it turns out the Boomer Bile bomb is surprisingly effective against the Tank.

I’ve played more now, on harder difficulties, with lower pings, and with friends. I find the SPAS shotgun just about passable, but still hate all the other guns I’ve used. I’m yet to have a good moment with any of the new infected – so far it’s always just been “Oh no, Ellis has a special infected on him – shoot it off!” I can believe the Spitter plays a more interesting role at times, but it’s never gone beyond “Shoot her, wait a while” for me.

What I have started to like a lot more is the melee weapons. For one, they’re the main thing ruined by a lousy ping: any delay at all and they just don’t feel real. For another, they’re more different than I realised, and the two I most wanted to use – the skillet and the baton – are the worst. The machete and the guitar have some kind of guaranteed dismemberment thing going on, and on a responsive server that can make cutting through a horde very fun.

Defibrillators are dear enough to my heart that their presence here could have totally turned me around on the game, but I was sad to find that a) they don’t revive downed team-mates, only outright dead ones, b) they’re one use only, and c) they can’t be used as a weapon. I guess a) makes medical sense, but it makes them profoundly not worth taking up your medkit slot. And c) is just unforgivable.

On topic: I imagine the fail guns you describe is similar to what I discovered in CoD: WaW. The guns sounded to tinny and the effect so weak that my gas powered BB pistol is more fun than that game’s assault rifles.

As for the rest, I’m sure they’ll be fixed by the time the public version rolls out. Thanks, beta testers XD

I think you nailed it that L4D 2 seems especially unpolished for a valve release (even understanding it’s a demo). I think the lack of polish isn’t in the glitches, but in the level design, controls, and implementation of melee weapons.

None of these ‘improvements’ seem to result in better gameplay. For example, it seems like melee weapons and fatigue were added to cooperative play because the devs thought that ‘stacking and meleeing’ was a ‘problem’ in cooperative play.

This ‘fix’ seems super half assed to me. As though it weren’t well thought-out (especially for Valve), and added without a good understanding of what players liked and disliked about the first L4D’s cooperative play.

Level design also seemed incredibly weak compared to the first game. Even though it’s a demo, the levels lack the attention to detail of the first game. For me, there was a very half life quality to the maps where you could actually trace your path from a rooftop to ground floor to a fire escape to another roof back to ground level, etc.

I don’t think a runaway success for L4D2 is guaranteed, and even if Valve somehow has a hit on its hands, I think it’s done it’s brand a big disservice.

There are a few bugs, but I guess that’s what happens when you develop a game in a year.

I did like the new items, weapons, and infected. Those three things should add a lot to versus mode, and that’s the main reason I bought the game. I’m also a HUGE Depeche Mode fan.

I was kidding about that last part.
Again, I was kidding about that last part.

My love for the guitar melee weapon may be based on my affinity for actual guitars, but the noises it made as it hit people were absolutely hilarious, and the wide arc of the swipe came in handy on several occasions. The alternate equipment for others slots was great, too: the boomer bile and defibrillator especially made for some interesting tactical choices.

The new infected were kind of a mixed bag, I’ll admit. The charger seems like a total pushover so far, and being ridden by a jockey is more or less a direct cross between being pulled by a smoker (tugged away from the group) and pounced by a hunter (damage the whole time). Wandering witches are underwhelming, as they seem even more inattentive than their stationary sistren, and without the crouch-to-standing switch, they’re easier to keep in your sights.

The spitter, however, is a great addition. I’ve already come to dread the blasted thing, as it can upend your strategy almost as effectively as a tank, and without the soundtrack warning you.

And something no one has touched on here is the massive overhaul on the soundtrack and ambiance. The retooled themes sound great, and are much more in-your-face than the alternately haunting and grating music from the previous game. This facilitates the most radical departure in L4D2 as far as I’m concerned: the shift from tense, panicked survival horror to manic, adrenaline-fueled zombie action. This is reflected in everything from the new cast to the uncommon infected to the wider range of guns to the ridiculous melee weapons, but it’s really rooted in the music. And I [i]love[/i] it.

1) The magnum pistol… man. That is all i have to say.
2) Melee weapons! It made this game feel a little more arcade like. I really enjoyed shooting up adrenaline and running at hordes of zombies with only a machete in my hand.
3) All of the new weapons and new items really create a lot more possible ways to get through the courses.

I’m really looking forward to this game despite the errors I experience initially.

Firstly, the weapons felt meatier to me, some no doubt because of a louder chunkier sounds but others such as the AK47 seemed to take out specials with greater ease.

Secondly, in our two play throughs, we had several superb encounters with the new special infected that really demonstrated their strengths to me; particularly the spitter who alternately stalled our advances, restricted our retreats and flushed us out of our hidey holes.

Thirdly, well, this is likely just luck of the draw but in both our games we were directed to decent low ping servers.

Yes, a full campaign would have been great, vs mode would have been great but this taster gave me personally a great experience and while I’m not trying to convince you that “Yes, you DID have a good time”, I hope that reading a few positive write-ups will strengthen your faith in the game being unlocked on November 17th (Valve Time!).

But since I would have to wait for L4D2 then I guess I’ll probably try the demo. Although I’m disappointed to hear about the bugs, it isn’t like I didn’t encounter them in the first L4D demo.