http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/ A games writer in the UK who also sometimes tries to make things. Tue, 22 May 2012 00:46:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-241784 Taric Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:31:05 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-241784 Main quest was awesome for me...And i probably wouldn't play Oblivion near as much without it http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-200846 billig ugg stiefel Tue, 14 Sep 2010 06:45:42 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-200846 I can heal minor wounds and open very easy - easy locks that's it , I became archi-mage very easily .. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115825 mrs skooma Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:48:39 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115825 soz oblivoin rocks http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115824 mrs skooma Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:47:19 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115824 hi http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115560 XIII Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:51:00 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115560 Rob - You don't actually need to be a mage character to become archi-mage , I created a thief-assassin oriented character , at first it was just for the fun of being in the dark brotherhood and the thief guild , I did every quest , been promoted to leader to both , then after wondering aimlessly for a while cause I simply dislike the oblivion gates , I just hate em , dunno why , I decided to aim to be leader to all guilds and grand champion of the arena , it took me 2 hours , with my thief-assassin character to slash my way in the arena , I was lvl 12 and didn't even bothered to block or backstab or even shoot arrows and the best a NPC did to me was downing me to half my life ( i was in light armor ) , then I did the fighter guild , there again took me little time to slash my way throught every quest , didn't even bothered to sneak kill the mobs , then with a no talented mage , I can heal minor wounds and open very easy - easy locks that's it , I became archi-mage very easily .... So you don't even have to create a character specificaly made to do the guild quests , any character with enought sneak and lockpicking will do them all easily ( or open lock spells )
So you don't even have to create a character specificaly made to do the guild quests , any character with enought sneak and lockpicking will do them all easily ( or open lock spells )]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115297 Ciaran Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:42:25 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115297 I like this idea - especially the fact that it restores Mannimarco to being a relatively central character, rather than just the underwhelming final boss of the Mage questline. A returning character deserved better. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115261 Pentadact Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:13:18 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115261 Heh, fair point. I could probably do a lot of this, without voice acting, but the end result would require people to start the whole game again and replay mostly familiar quests just to get my point. If I'm going to put a lot of time into proving my theoretical prattling - which I am keen to - I want it to produce something people can try easily to see what they think. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115255 Killa-Ewok Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:08:10 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115255 WHAT ARE YOU DOING STILL WRITING BLOG UPDATES? GET YOUR ASS TO OBLIVION MOD MAKER AND DO THIS SHIT, MAN! http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115248 Mike Arthur Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:39:23 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115248 Great post Tom. I'd play this and I think it would probably be much better than vintage Oblivion. It would be cool to see other similar posts about other games you'd change like this. Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115213 Rob Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:45:06 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115213 I built a nice thiefy-rogue type character, but spent most of the game running from wildlife and standing on big rocks firing arrows at things. So yes, I also abandoned the main quest (somewhere after getting Sean Bean to safety). Getting through Chorral was ridiculous because I was levelled too high thanks to their (fixed in Fallout 3) levelled enemies system. On the whole I disagree that a long central plotline is that bad, because within it - in theory - you can play in a fairly flexible way (although big stompy types did better than waifs like me), and I enjoy developers who put real length and content into their games. The long-form central narrative is what *should* give devs the most opportunity to really say something interesting. Splitting the game off into guild-sized chunks would either create too much work or less actual story content, per guild, and it would mean playing every guild in order to experience the core story (not everyone actually wants to be a mage or create a mage type character).
On the whole I disagree that a long central plotline is that bad, because within it - in theory - you can play in a fairly flexible way (although big stompy types did better than waifs like me), and I enjoy developers who put real length and content into their games. The long-form central narrative is what *should* give devs the most opportunity to really say something interesting.

Splitting the game off into guild-sized chunks would either create too much work or less actual story content, per guild, and it would mean playing every guild in order to experience the core story (not everyone actually wants to be a mage or create a mage type character).]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115152 Lack_26 Sat, 08 Aug 2009 07:10:23 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115152 My brother had to build a character specifically for the main quest, this character ended up rich beyond his wildest dreams, the floor of his bedroom in Skingrad littered with rare artefacts and armour yet to find a place upon the walls. But it screams poor design that you have to make a character for the main quest, I find your idea much closer to an ideal solution.
But it screams poor design that you have to make a character for the main quest, I find your idea much closer to an ideal solution.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115151 Morne Sat, 08 Aug 2009 05:16:24 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115151 @Matt: There isn't a whole lot of group battle in Oblivion, because the small amount that there is is insanely annoying. For my computer at least, there is massive lag, and I'd constantly be accidentally hitting and killing my allies, forcing me to reload (because I felt bad. And incompetent). Plus the archers would be shooting me the whole time. But despite that, I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed Oblivion's main quest. And the problem with the ideas above is that you then couldn't do all the guild quests after the main quest, which is what I mainly ended up doing.
But despite that, I may be in the minority, but I really enjoyed Oblivion's main quest. And the problem with the ideas above is that you then couldn't do all the guild quests after the main quest, which is what I mainly ended up doing.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115147 MartinJ Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:42:35 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115147 I finished Oblivion's main quest, but I actually had to cheat my way through the planes. I literally noclip'd all the way to the top tower, put in the orb or whatever it was (I actually forgot), noclip'd out. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115145 Matt Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:18:07 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115145 @Dante: Looks to me like Tom did a pretty good job of taking each guild's respective skills into consideration. The Thieves Guild, for example, ends with sneaking a Black Soul Gem into a plane of Oblivion and then hightailing it out of there before said plane collapses. I think that's the part of a potential redesign like this that most excites me -- the opportunity to use your character's skills in a meaningful way. My time as a kleptomaniac in Morrowind (just couldn't enjoy Oblivion, sadly) meant most of my thieving was purely for personal benefit, when sneaking skills and the like could have been worked into the storyline in a way that adds another dimension to the profession. I never did make it far into Oblivion's main quest, so forgive my ignorance, but did group battle ever factor in at all? The idea of tackling something with your guild mates is a pretty exciting one, which makes me wonder why Bethesda didn't capitalize on it. Engine limitations, perhaps? Weak AI?
I think that's the part of a potential redesign like this that most excites me -- the opportunity to use your character's skills in a meaningful way. My time as a kleptomaniac in Morrowind (just couldn't enjoy Oblivion, sadly) meant most of my thieving was purely for personal benefit, when sneaking skills and the like could have been worked into the storyline in a way that adds another dimension to the profession.

I never did make it far into Oblivion's main quest, so forgive my ignorance, but did group battle ever factor in at all? The idea of tackling something with your guild mates is a pretty exciting one, which makes me wonder why Bethesda didn't capitalize on it. Engine limitations, perhaps? Weak AI?]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115141 Dante Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:49:50 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115141 I think one of the things you've got to be careful of here is that each questline has to reflect the guild involved. One of the things that irritated me most about Oblivion was that the Thieves Guild rarely did any actual thieving, and sent you on dungeon crawls instead, unlike in Morrowind where it was more about sneaking into houses and pilfering stuff. What I'm saying is, you've got to make sure the introduction of the demons doesn't just make everything a big fight. The Thieves Guild should focus on sneaking through a gate undetected and stealing a soul gem or something, rather than fighting a prince.
What I'm saying is, you've got to make sure the introduction of the demons doesn't just make everything a big fight. The Thieves Guild should focus on sneaking through a gate undetected and stealing a soul gem or something, rather than fighting a prince.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115140 Jazmeister Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:10:19 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115140 Noc: Great ideas man. I love that completely. I think if Morrowind was some kind of quest to do good water, and Oblivion tackled the problem of trees, maybe they should start on more endearing NPCs for ES5. They did a better job for F3, but even Zelda makes you care more. LaZodiac: "Interesting... I'd dismissed this page, but seeing you fend off that ogre... apparently there's an artefact, and ancient and powerful Frying Pan of the Nine, deep beneath the forests of Anvil."
LaZodiac: "Interesting... I'd dismissed this page, but seeing you fend off that ogre... apparently there's an artefact, and ancient and powerful Frying Pan of the Nine, deep beneath the forests of Anvil."]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115133 J-Man Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:06:42 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115133 What would stop a warrior from working his way through the Dark Brotherhood until he has to sneak into the Oblivion plane and instead just slashing his way through? http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115132 Ludo Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:03:01 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115132 Yeah, killing a Daedric Prince with a right hook would be great. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115131 LaZodiac Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:55:31 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115131 Just a correction I think you should do. Instead of a blade imbued with the powers to kill the Deadra Prince, I think the game would be able to see which type of weaponry you've used the most, and give you an imbued weapon accordingly. That way, someone thats been fisticuffing there way through the game doesn't have to learn how to stab things. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-08-06-abandoning-the-main-quest-in-oblivion/#comment-115128 Noc Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:46:59 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=1004#comment-115128 Personally, what I really would've liked to see from Oblivion is something that Morrowind notably lacked: more dynamism from the world, specifically relating to the story. Most of the tasks along the main questline in Morrowind are either intelligence or organizational tasks. The first half is Caius sending you around to find out stuff, while the latter half involves going around and organizing all the political bodies in Vvardenfell into something resembling an effective resistance. And then there's the endgame, where everyone storms Red Mountain. Except no one else actually does anything. Even when NPCs specifically talk about how, say, "The Ordinators and the Buyant Armigers are going to stage a massive series of raids inside the Ghostgate to provide a distraction for your attacks," you don't ever see any of that being done. . . . What I would've liked from Oblivion is, well, that. Instead of your quest being to find a way to singlehandedly stop the invasion, all of the Main Quests (and most of the side quests, considering bloodthirsty Daedra pouring out of gates everywhere is sort of the most important thing anyone has to worry about) would involve mobilizing the various disorganized, leaderless, or otherwise ineffectual factions against the threat. The death of the Emperor's thrown the central Imperial government into disarray, the Mage's Guild is divided nearly in half by the banning of Necromancy, the Fighter's Guild's dealing with a rival mercenary force interfering with their work, and everyone's got the Radiant Dawn infiltrating and sabataging and generally making things more difficult. Faction quests would, basically, result in carving out little pockets of safety where your organization's set itself up. It would remain VERY UNSAFE outside of these pockets. As you do more work for each faction, you start to secure more of the region. Main Quest stuff would be factfinding that greatly helps these efforts: finding ways to predict where gates will open, finding ways to close gates permanently, and eventually finding a way to stop the invasion all together. . . . This wouldn't necessarily have to involve difficult-to-program procedural armies, and lots of AI fights, and whatnot. But things like more of the world changing: villagers huddle behind locked doors and guards on rooftops take potshots at anything moving that comes near would turn to people walking about normally once you've finished a quest to secure the area. The number of guard patrols along walls or roads would increase if you did something to finally get them organized. Cities would be cluttered and grimy when they're under siege, and daedra would randomly spawn in alleys . . . which sufficient guard coverage would stop. Out in the wilderness, you'd start to see distant gates collapsing in a flash of light once soldiering parties start to get the knack of taking them down on their own. Once you figure out how to close gates permanently, they wouldn't respawn. Things like that.
Most of the tasks along the main questline in Morrowind are either intelligence or organizational tasks. The first half is Caius sending you around to find out stuff, while the latter half involves going around and organizing all the political bodies in Vvardenfell into something resembling an effective resistance. And then there's the endgame, where everyone storms Red Mountain.

Except no one else actually does anything. Even when NPCs specifically talk about how, say, "The Ordinators and the Buyant Armigers are going to stage a massive series of raids inside the Ghostgate to provide a distraction for your attacks," you don't ever see any of that being done.

. . .

What I would've liked from Oblivion is, well, that. Instead of your quest being to find a way to singlehandedly stop the invasion, all of the Main Quests (and most of the side quests, considering bloodthirsty Daedra pouring out of gates everywhere is sort of the most important thing anyone has to worry about) would involve mobilizing the various disorganized, leaderless, or otherwise ineffectual factions against the threat. The death of the Emperor's thrown the central Imperial government into disarray, the Mage's Guild is divided nearly in half by the banning of Necromancy, the Fighter's Guild's dealing with a rival mercenary force interfering with their work, and everyone's got the Radiant Dawn infiltrating and sabataging and generally making things more difficult.

Faction quests would, basically, result in carving out little pockets of safety where your organization's set itself up. It would remain VERY UNSAFE outside of these pockets. As you do more work for each faction, you start to secure more of the region. Main Quest stuff would be factfinding that greatly helps these efforts: finding ways to predict where gates will open, finding ways to close gates permanently, and eventually finding a way to stop the invasion all together.

. . .

This wouldn't necessarily have to involve difficult-to-program procedural armies, and lots of AI fights, and whatnot. But things like more of the world changing: villagers huddle behind locked doors and guards on rooftops take potshots at anything moving that comes near would turn to people walking about normally once you've finished a quest to secure the area. The number of guard patrols along walls or roads would increase if you did something to finally get them organized. Cities would be cluttered and grimy when they're under siege, and daedra would randomly spawn in alleys . . . which sufficient guard coverage would stop. Out in the wilderness, you'd start to see distant gates collapsing in a flash of light once soldiering parties start to get the knack of taking them down on their own. Once you figure out how to close gates permanently, they wouldn't respawn.

Things like that.]]>