http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/ A games writer in the UK who also sometimes tries to make things. Tue, 22 May 2012 00:46:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-47884 01d55 Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:15:47 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-47884 So, what say the overlords? I notice CVG has a DoW2 review up, but it isn't yours and therefore is clearly insufficient. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-47033 Pentadact Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:55:17 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-47033 Not yet, I'm afraid. I'll ask if our CVG overlords plan to up it. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-47027 01d55 Sun, 22 Feb 2009 05:28:53 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-47027 So is the review available online now? I'd like to read it. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46805 AJ Sun, 15 Feb 2009 03:08:02 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46805 Now that is a pretty damn good idea for victory mode! http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46419 Jamie Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:29:50 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46419 Oh and I spanked my RL friends at it hard. Sure, they are even newer to it than I am.. but it feels good to be winning at an RTS for once.
Sure, they are even newer to it than I am.. but it feels good to be winning at an RTS for once.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46418 Jamie Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:27:02 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46418 Been playing this again today and I have to say I love it. The one flaw is the units being too small. 6 Orks in a unit. 3 Space marines, etc... Other than that I think it's a lot of fun, and control point games feel really strategy-y. I'm disappointed about the genestealer's sure, but i was pleasantly surprised to see zoanthropes in there. I love those things :D
The one flaw is the units being too small. 6 Orks in a unit. 3 Space marines, etc...

Other than that I think it's a lot of fun, and control point games feel really strategy-y.

I'm disappointed about the genestealer's sure, but i was pleasantly surprised to see zoanthropes in there. I love those things :D]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46344 Cptn.Average Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:51:06 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46344 No Genestealers?! Really? Thats soooo bizarre. That aside, how hard can it be to balance a unit like banshees? Going by the minis game alone, they shouldn't be able to do jack to vehicles so that could be a quick fix, though having not had a chance at the beta (moniter died unexpectedly), I admit I could be talking out my arse. It is good to hear them being scarier than in DOW though, I could never quite understand how ineffective they were in the original.
That aside, how hard can it be to balance a unit like banshees? Going by the minis game alone, they shouldn't be able to do jack to vehicles so that could be a quick fix, though having not had a chance at the beta (moniter died unexpectedly), I admit I could be talking out my arse. It is good to hear them being scarier than in DOW though, I could never quite understand how ineffective they were in the original.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46286 Caleb Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:05:24 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46286 I have been playing the beta since its launch. To comment on how the VP matches end so quickly….I would assume with the retail game you can choose to play victory points to 1,000 instead of 500 in order to better play out t3 units. I have had a blast doing 3v3. I enjoy the new play style because it is more like what the Lore entails. The last time I really appreciated a specific Space Marine unit was the game Chaos Gate. I am an average RTS player from Age of Mythology to Red Alert 3. Dawn of War II’s simplicity has allowed me to get really good. I completely concur with Garg about this style of RTS being more engaging. The opening salvo of a match is my favorite. Using the force commander and scouts to crush an opposing hero and his units from the start is fantastically effective --Then luring in players to a devastator squad, sending my hero back to heal while I tech up to get that dreadnaught unit out ASAP! To the commentators that have had trouble and brain cramp maybe you need to look at it this way; On any map your goal is to conquer and hold one of three sections. Which section you go after depends on where your base is. The sections are simply two VP points and one straight shot at resources. If the opportunity presents itself you might be able to flank to the middle to help an ally out. That is all the grand scheme is to me. Controlling your units I have found very easy (I only play Space Marine) using the bar on the right-hand side. At most I only have 4-5 units out there. To the statements about Tyranids sucking….I have seen Carnifaxe’s stack up to 1500hp to win a crucial point, or the nids use tunneling to effectively control at least two VP points on their own. I am only rank ten and in my experience it is the Orks who are weakest. Eldar is very popular but I have yet to see a complete overpowering moment play out. I’ve only had trouble against wraith lords but if I get desperate, I forgo my chance to use orbital bombardment quickly and drop a pod on one. The Eldar are a fragile creature :P Two things that annoy me: dis-connectors towards impending victory, and GFWL. GFWL is snappy, and works like you expect live to on the Xbox 360. It is terribly unnecessary though. I guess the plus is that you get your live profile and will gain some achievements Microsoft live style. Dis-connectors cause folks to drop left and right and then ultimately the game freezing. I sincerely hope that the developers can find an alternative solution than just warning current players that the game might crash due to kicking dis-connected players. To battle brooothers!
I have had a blast doing 3v3. I enjoy the new play style because it is more like what the Lore entails. The last time I really appreciated a specific Space Marine unit was the game Chaos Gate. I am an average RTS player from Age of Mythology to Red Alert 3. Dawn of War II’s simplicity has allowed me to get really good. I completely concur with Garg about this style of RTS being more engaging. The opening salvo of a match is my favorite. Using the force commander and scouts to crush an opposing hero and his units from the start is fantastically effective --Then luring in players to a devastator squad, sending my hero back to heal while I tech up to get that dreadnaught unit out ASAP!

To the commentators that have had trouble and brain cramp maybe you need to look at it this way; On any map your goal is to conquer and hold one of three sections. Which section you go after depends on where your base is. The sections are simply two VP points and one straight shot at resources. If the opportunity presents itself you might be able to flank to the middle to help an ally out. That is all the grand scheme is to me. Controlling your units I have found very easy (I only play Space Marine) using the bar on the right-hand side. At most I only have 4-5 units out there.

To the statements about Tyranids sucking….I have seen Carnifaxe’s stack up to 1500hp to win a crucial point, or the nids use tunneling to effectively control at least two VP points on their own. I am only rank ten and in my experience it is the Orks who are weakest. Eldar is very popular but I have yet to see a complete overpowering moment play out. I’ve only had trouble against wraith lords but if I get desperate, I forgo my chance to use orbital bombardment quickly and drop a pod on one. The Eldar are a fragile creature :P

Two things that annoy me: dis-connectors towards impending victory, and GFWL. GFWL is snappy, and works like you expect live to on the Xbox 360. It is terribly unnecessary though. I guess the plus is that you get your live profile and will gain some achievements Microsoft live style. Dis-connectors cause folks to drop left and right and then ultimately the game freezing. I sincerely hope that the developers can find an alternative solution than just warning current players that the game might crash due to kicking dis-connected players.

To battle brooothers!]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46266 Garg Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:36:03 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46266 Read the review of DoW 2 in PCG a while ago, it disheartened me a little that Relic appear to have slacked on the single player, but I was optimistic that the multiplayer beta would win me over. I only ever really played multiplayer in the original DoW anyways. It did win me over; I find the entire micromangement of your forces, rather than tedious research and base building, much more engaging. With regards to the game length being too brief though, I'm not sure that I find that to be the case. I typically only play rated 1v1 matches though (I'm not playing team games until I can play with some friends on my team). With victory points there are (broadly) two possible outcomes: First one person wins easily, in which case a speedy resolution is desirable; at least from a competitive stand point, not sure about people who like crushing the loser like ants. This is where I think your shield idea comes in, however to me all it seems to me to do is to extend the time which you have to wait for victory to be declared. A "to-be loser" countering his way out of this is unlikely, at least for this game scenario. The other potential game is that you have a good, tight match, with the victory points sliding back and forth with each attack and counter attack. Counter attacks tend to take the form of the losing person coming back with the next tiers units, so often you'll find the victor of a tier 1 engagement at the start being subsequently beaten back by a counter attack of tier 2 dreadnaughts. If the game went on any longer than the 500 points allowed with the second game scenario then you'd just have a big tier 3 "mashup" in the middle, and it would feel an awful lot like the diabolical quick-start "Into the Breach" games in the original. Also in this game scenario you could see that, since it was so close, both teams would be able to hold on to some victory points for long enough for both bases to lose their shields, and then it would just be a much longer game as each tries and destroys the others base. Why not just play on annhilate?
It did win me over; I find the entire micromangement of your forces, rather than tedious research and base building, much more engaging. With regards to the game length being too brief though, I'm not sure that I find that to be the case. I typically only play rated 1v1 matches though (I'm not playing team games until I can play with some friends on my team).

With victory points there are (broadly) two possible outcomes: First one person wins easily, in which case a speedy resolution is desirable; at least from a competitive stand point, not sure about people who like crushing the loser like ants. This is where I think your shield idea comes in, however to me all it seems to me to do is to extend the time which you have to wait for victory to be declared. A "to-be loser" countering his way out of this is unlikely, at least for this game scenario.

The other potential game is that you have a good, tight match, with the victory points sliding back and forth with each attack and counter attack. Counter attacks tend to take the form of the losing person coming back with the next tiers units, so often you'll find the victor of a tier 1 engagement at the start being subsequently beaten back by a counter attack of tier 2 dreadnaughts. If the game went on any longer than the 500 points allowed with the second game scenario then you'd just have a big tier 3 "mashup" in the middle, and it would feel an awful lot like the diabolical quick-start "Into the Breach" games in the original. Also in this game scenario you could see that, since it was so close, both teams would be able to hold on to some victory points for long enough for both bases to lose their shields, and then it would just be a much longer game as each tries and destroys the others base. Why not just play on annhilate?]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46258 SwiftRanger9 Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:58:25 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46258 Dante, giant units can help but don't win a SupCom game by default, especially not in Forged Alliance where they're a bit weaker (but cheaper/faster). SupCom does have a much bigger focus on economy though but it offers enough UI tools and shortcuts to cope with that. DoW II lacks many of the huge relic units of the previous games, Khaine Avatar aside, but I haven't really missed them yet. Just claiming some terrain with a few squads or even being able to retreat everyone in time is very satisfying. If anything then it are really the heroes which are a force to fear, they aren't very powerful but they can adapt to nearly every situation with their interchangeable gear, so much even that I start to feel guilty about it.
DoW II lacks many of the huge relic units of the previous games, Khaine Avatar aside, but I haven't really missed them yet. Just claiming some terrain with a few squads or even being able to retreat everyone in time is very satisfying. If anything then it are really the heroes which are a force to fear, they aren't very powerful but they can adapt to nearly every situation with their interchangeable gear, so much even that I start to feel guilty about it.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46257 Dante Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:41:59 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46257 I have to say some of these comments make odd reading, I'm amazed that people find SupCom easier to manage than the Relic games. I find CoH and DoW 2 the only games I can remotely micromanage in, SupCom is just a case of directing one general swarm of units in vaguely the right direction and hoping, or building one of the giant units and autowinning, it's not really so much a strategy game as a resource management game. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46249 Aftershock Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:52:15 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46249 Heh, I love my alias. It only changed once after i invented it, when i heard about a little game called "bioshock" being developed. I've been pining for this majorly. My computer is dead currently, due to a PSU explosion. Hence i haven't gamed in a week or so. I think i'm getting withdrawal symptoms.
I've been pining for this majorly. My computer is dead currently, due to a PSU explosion. Hence i haven't gamed in a week or so. I think i'm getting withdrawal symptoms.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46247 Formerly Cpt.Muffin Thu, 29 Jan 2009 04:50:14 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46247 Cheers Tom, I think I might still get the game to tide me over but I hope they take onboard what you said patch wise. (p.s. with your reccomendations of mass effect and fallout three and co my budget is already low, as I tend to agree with your opinions. You intelligent bastard you). I've never considered adding you on steam as frankly I dont know you personally nor have I met you online in a game. Plus I'm never happy with my online aliases. But feck it, I'll find an original name at some point, Cpt.Muffin it'll be for the time being. That goes for all you James-ites too if you care for a game.
I've never considered adding you on steam as frankly I dont know you personally nor have I met you online in a game. Plus I'm never happy with my online aliases. But feck it, I'll find an original name at some point, Cpt.Muffin it'll be for the time being. That goes for all you James-ites too if you care for a game.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46243 Thomas "Padre" Lawrence Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:59:22 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46243 Also, the Community page is claiming you're already ignoring me. This is possibly because I already attempted to add you once, then withdrew it when I saw a warning suggesting that your friends list was already full. Hmm. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46242 Thomas "Padre" Lawrence Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:56:17 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46242 Hmm, that'll present a puzzle, I go by the name Padre on Steam, as that's the handle/alias/thingummy I use on a forum I frequent. Thomas Lawrence, by contrast, is my real name. http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46241 Pentadact Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:46:49 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46241 Add me, I'll accept requests from names I recognise from here. If your Steam name is | DKKC | ?r.?e\/!? [?U$] and you add me without explaining who you are, though, that request tends to get left hanging. I'm also going to start removing people who've changed their name to something incomprehensible, because if I no longer know who you are, I don't really care what you're playing. Right now that's about half my Friends list.
Right now that's about half my Friends list.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46240 Thomas Lawrence Thu, 29 Jan 2009 02:22:31 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46240 Off-topic: what's you policy on Steam friending and random people who comment on your blog? Would I be better off just joining the PC Gamer groups? http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46239 Pentadact Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:36:39 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46239 Not between review and gold, but we can't predict what they'll do in the day-one patch. They could read my review, realise I'm right, fix everything I moan about in the patch, and make me look stupid. To an extent that's what happened with Spore, but they didn't quite fix it and the patch came some time after release. Whenever it happens, if a patch significantly changes the quality of a game, we have ways of covering that in the mag. Inferno & SwiftRanger9 - interesting perspectives. I guess opinion on its value as a competitive game is going to change as new tactics and exploits are discovered. My favourite thing about it is just how much there is to learn.
Inferno & SwiftRanger9 - interesting perspectives. I guess opinion on its value as a competitive game is going to change as new tactics and exploits are discovered. My favourite thing about it is just how much there is to learn.]]> http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46232 Formerly Cpt.Muffin Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:06:56 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46232 Day Zero patching - a pain in the fundament, but at least I get to munch up the single player whilst they sort out the multiplayer. From reviewing it Tom do you know if they've updated anything majorly from the press pass version to the now finished gold product? http://www.pentadact.com/2009-01-28-morn-of-brawl/#comment-46230 Inferno Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:15:23 +0000 http://www.pentadact.com/?p=552#comment-46230 For anyone who played DoW competitively the multiplayer is a bit of a disappointment as it really is highly dumbed down compared to SS. You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the bases having too high defence, it's one of the biggest complaints and what's worse is the fact that the T3 units (which almost never appear because T2 contains all of the units that basically end the game) barely do any mroe damage to it. The shields idea is cool but it removes the ability to make a quick comeback near the end when you have fewer troops but manage to cap the points and still doesn't allow base harrasment which is a really important part of RTS. Currently relic are just overly protecting new players as the main HQ gives so much resource the other points in the map barely have an effect on your counter. Relic have to fix the UI and some other niggling issues and they'll have a fun, if not competitive, RTS multiplayer. Oh and 'nids are far from awful, just play hit and run with them (never stay in bad fights) and use the lictor to tear apart squads with flesh hooks. I'm having fun with the game and am definitely looking forward to playing Co op campaign. Your review in PCG was quite excellent too. I'm glad you aren't afraid to review a followon from a highly liked game much lower (though the score you gave is still great). I'll deff be picking it up but it is a shame not everything worked out perfectly.
The shields idea is cool but it removes the ability to make a quick comeback near the end when you have fewer troops but manage to cap the points and still doesn't allow base harrasment which is a really important part of RTS. Currently relic are just overly protecting new players as the main HQ gives so much resource the other points in the map barely have an effect on your counter.

Relic have to fix the UI and some other niggling issues and they'll have a fun, if not competitive, RTS multiplayer.

Oh and 'nids are far from awful, just play hit and run with them (never stay in bad fights) and use the lictor to tear apart squads with flesh hooks.

I'm having fun with the game and am definitely looking forward to playing Co op campaign. Your review in PCG was quite excellent too. I'm glad you aren't afraid to review a followon from a highly liked game much lower (though the score you gave is still great). I'll deff be picking it up but it is a shame not everything worked out perfectly.]]>