Comments on: Valve Completely Out Of Weapon Ideas, Beg For Help

By: Amen

Amen — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:37:08 +0000

Ok, if you read my post, you must think i want to implement a Overpowered Weapon for the Heavy. No, the Mg should be weaker, because you got now more Accuraty + Free Movement while Firing. The Mini-MP (I want to call it "Misha", Sasha's little Sister :D) spreads like her big sister, not sooo much, but its not so accurate like the MP from the Sniper. The Stunfist are still weaker then your old Fist, they got just the ability to root + disarm your enemy for a short period. So, to prevent for abuse, you need to wait 10 seconds before you can Stun again, but the Stun lasts for arround 3 Seconds.

By: Amen

Amen — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:27:41 +0000

Guys, this release-idea sounds pretty nice. But why we dont make it so: Lets forget for a second that the Heavy loves his Sasha, and let us change his Minigun for a "Rambo-MG" (the idea is, that he dont need to spin-up this thing, just an leftclick and you got an fullautomatic 100 Shot 2-3 Magazines-Mg and you can move more freely while shooting (you CANT jump or "run" (running is the wrong word for an Heavy)) Well, now you can implement a few gymmnics to this gun: at first, maybe we make this gun a lil bit more accurate, so the heavy dont need to get absolutly close, he can allready start firing at mid-range. manco: its weaker then Sasha. (for sure, its just a MG, not a Minigun ;)) And if he runs arround with an medic, this MG will maybe an Problem for them (imagine: youre in fight, an Medic charges you...but damn you must reload! How good would it be, if you got your Sasha now with endless firepower? And even if youre fully loaded, you must allways check your Ammo.). Positive: The Release-Thing. If youre out of ammo, or just in an dangerous situation, you drop your Weapon and start running. Positive: Its not your Sasha, so you just need to run to an Ammopack to get a new Gun + 50 Shot for it (So the Heavy is short bound on the Place to refill his ammo, or just kill an enemy with the 50 shot, it depends now on you ;) Well, i just speak from dropping his new MG, so he keeps his shotgun / other unlock, so he got still a little selfdefense while running (because many ppl will start now to follow him, so the heavy can keep them at distance, while running to the next ammobox). Well, if you dont like that, then lets say we nerf the Heavys DMG now: If he drops his MG; but still runs at the front with his higher speed, we could give him higher fist-dmg (only for the fists i would say, not for the new melee-unlock) and nerf the dmg from his shotty a little bit (we dont want an rushing fatty + an shotgun, for that we have an slim scout). Ok, now lets think about the melee: If he changed his fists maybe for whatever what, the bonus of this thing could be, that you can do an knock-out. I dont mean an overpowered hit, just slow down you enemy so you can rush him... imagine: now you dropped your MG, risked an Meleefight, because your Secondary-Weapon is to weak to kill an enemy, just to finish off bleeding ppl. Your new fists didnt get an Dmg-Bonus like your old one, and now you try to follow somebody with the speed of an Demoman. He, confused about your action, turns arround and runs away too, because he's low in HP. But, bahaa, now comes the slowdown-effect, you did an left-punch to knockout your enemy, an right-hit and pow, he will never start again to attack an Heavy without his Weapon. Or an freakin' Pyro is trying to burn you, because he's still faster then you, and if you keep running now to the ammobox, you will show him your back (i say only "Backburner" at this point). You run fast infront of him, punch him with your left fist, and then run away. He's now short knocked out, means disarmed, and you got the time to escape. THis new fists should be weaker, because the slow-down-lefthit does only 10-20 Dmg, and the right-hit gives you now the "CALL MY NAME?!"-Feeling, but it should be not enough to kill an Player while hes stunned. Now you can decide: do you drop your weapon, face your enemy with your power-fists or you do prefer your new "Stunfist" to knockout your enemys while running away / hit them while stunned + finish them off when they awake? You decide. Whats about the shotty? It should be the first unlock for an Heavy. Well, not much to say about that, maybe we change it for an Mini-MP with 30 Shot, weak Dmg, just to finish off running enemys / to keep enemys better at distance while disarmed. Its weaker then the shotty at close range for sure, but the positive is, that you dont get nerfed when you drop your mainweapon (because the weapon IS allready weak, so you cant get nerfed anymore after dropping. And well, maybe you get now a crit-salve like an sniper and you can kill now an enemy really easy? The 5% will decide...Just to show how strong the weapon is: you need 1 FULL magazines to kill an Soldier). Well, now lets see: we gave the Heavy a few new Features, on other hand we nerfed his Dmg. If he get an Medic, his MG will be still good, but never so good as his Sasha. So, if you choose all the three new Weapons, you can easy go arround solo, but you will be never such effective as with your Sasha and an Medic.

By: The Deleter

The Deleter — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:58:15 +0000

^All projectiles aimed from the front except explosives, I meant. Silly me.

By: The Deleter

The Deleter — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:51:28 +0000

The big problem with the Heavy is that he's a target. He's big and causes carnage, so everyone with an I.Q. over 50 will aim for him first. He needs protection.

Enter a ripped-off door from a high security vault. It's alt-fire lowers it in front of the Heavy, protecting him from all projectiles except explosives aimed from the front. This slows him to about the same speed as he would be when firing his Minigun, and he can only see through a small viewing slit at the front.

This could be a replacement for the fists, where it never scores crits but sends targets flying upwards/back, or have the shotgun or a rilfe wedged into a slit at the front, so he can fight back whilst protected.

Or, better yet, he could have a small sheild on his minigun, so he is protected from shots from the front, but the fact that the sheild is bolted onto the rotating drum means that the bullet dispersal is increased slightly. Or maybe it doesn't score crits. Whatever.

By: Jason L

Jason L — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:07:42 +0000

I really disagree with anything involving Heavy putting down Sasha - confusing, fiddly, too permanent, emotionally impossible - but it seems like faster, punching Heavies lead to less sniping and much hilarity. How about just letting him hang/holster Sasha on his back, whence he gains a sprint secondary fire (with a few steps' momentum?) I would take a few seconds to hang up Sasha or get her back out...Punching dudes while sprinting would need to trigger a Heavy belly-laugh/taunt. Possibly also a crit?

By: NeoRussia

NeoRussia — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:12:50 +0000

Overall I believe the best idea we should focus on is the heavy getting stronger as he gets damaged. My idea is a primary weapon that gets a faster firing rate AND movement speed increase while spinning minigun based on how much HP the heavy has. To keep the gun equal to the old Sasha, Sasha will get a new ability, in which it can be dropped (but picked up again is possible). Once dropped, the heavy will have the speed of a demoman, his melee attack would be faster, and he has more ammo for his secondary gun. He can pick up his primary weapon again if he finds it, or he can work co-operatively with another heavy to share the primary weapon.

By: Azzen

Azzen — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:13:10 +0000

Pentadact: I don't mean that he needs a medic for his power, I mean that perhaps a medic can aid in his ability. And, the medic would still have his regular healing abilities, so he'll be a help to everyone nonetheless. That aside, I'm really liking the "Burst-fire" idea from the Steam forums. Since the heavy's personality will probably limit the change to an attachment/adjustment to Sasha, a burst-fire mode would fit well.

By: thezeus18

thezeus18 — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:41:16 +0000

Roller-skates. Roller-skates that allow him to travel quickly, but not to stop quickly. In effect, I would recommend turning him into a vehicle with momentum. Medics won't be able to keep up with him at full speed, so this doesn't stack with the medic. It makes him more effective without the medic because he can escape from battle more quickly. There is also the basic novelty of the different mode of movement, with the player having to keep track of speeding up and speeding down, so that he doesn't fly right past the point into the group of defending enemies. It would be easy to use, but hard to master, increasing the necessity of knowing just when to pull out of the battle; you're more likely to survive if you have enough time for your skates to accelerate. Also, if the heavy hits a wall or solid object at a certain speed, he will suffer damage akin to that received in a fall from height. The downside of the skates would be the skill required in maneuvering with them, and that the minigun recoil would propel the heavy backwards, so that he cannot effectively fire the minigun unless he is against a wall. However, this recoil could be used to the heavy's advantage, as if he fires the minigun while retreating, he could go very fast.

By: Pentadact

Pentadact — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:18:51 +0000

All the class packs make the class more powerful. The implication of Valve's goal for this unlock is that solo Heavies are currently underpowered, and something is needed to address this to encourage people to play Heavy when there are no Medics. If he needs a Medic to charge that something, it doesn't help in situations where there are no Medics.

By: Azzen

Azzen — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:39:53 +0000

Well, if we had something that boosted the heavy's solo power but didn't decrease medic-heavy power, then we're overpowering him.

Perhaps if we had something that re-routed medic power to something a heavy can use later for solo-ing...?

By: Chijts

Chijts — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 17:57:55 +0000

If they did actually make that little note on sasha a reality, I'd think I'd wet my pants with laughing too much. I'd also only play Heavy. Sorry Pentadact but as much as I enjoy your idea, I think your edited idea is going too far. He should just drop his weapons, say something like "FORGIVE ME SASHA, I RUN NOW!", and have increased speed. He could pick his gun up again, but only has the same amount of time to fetch it as when guns are usually left on the ground.

By: Cossak

Cossak — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:06:16 +0000

As I see it the heavy's problem when soloing is that his play style attracts way too much attention and damage to be viable, so any unlocks should give him better survivability whilst still being functional ie not running all the way back to the base for the sake of staying alive. So, suggestions:

Some sort of helmet or face mask that physicall impairs your vision (have to look through eye-holes of some sort that block a small part of the screen) but protects you from all critical hits. Has no effect when being healed. Arguable whether this can be taken off/on during a round.

Minigun has vampiric bullets that return small amount of health after you have been continually firing (and hitting enemies) for several seconds. Has no effect when being healed.

Minigun slowly builds up a charge of (something) after firing (and hitting enemies) that builds up over time to give the heavy a small armour boost. Up to a maximum. Charge doesn't build up when being healed and any built up armour is ignored when being healed.

By: Rosti

Rosti — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:04:31 +0000

Bandolier, quite frankly, IS FUNNY TO ME! I'm not convinced that either of the solutions in the main post are ideal, but the whole thing is so amusing that I wouldn't care so long as it ends up existing. That and more automated melee taunts and we're set. "SASHA WOULD BE WASTED ON YOU, LEETLE MAN!"

By: bandolier: how fast is fast?

bandolier: how fast is fast? — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:37:01 +0000

I love the release bandolier and could see it working if his speed was just slightly above a soldier's after releasing.

By: himmelstoss

himmelstoss — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:34:55 +0000

his fists attack slowly*.

By: himmelstoss

himmelstoss — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:34:36 +0000

Here's an alternate way to make the bandolier thing work. Once he drops the weapons, he not only runs like a demoman, he also gets a 100% crit chance with his fists. As a tradeoff: when the heavy has his stuff, his fists attack

About the weapon recovery thing though: there are 3 options.
1. Heavy can recover weapons by picking up any ammo
2. Heavy needs to pick up a dropped minigun (doesn't need to be his, it could be a dead enemy's)
3. As a corollary to option 2: Heavy must recover Sasha within N seconds or he needs to pick up a dropped minigun.

By: Pentadact

Pentadact — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:02:21 +0000

Azzen: I disagree. This was the mistake in the post that kicked off the Steam brainstorming thread: Robin's post never suggested the unlock should reduce the Heavy's effectiveness when paired with a Medic, only that it shouldn't increase it further. The aim is to boost his solo effectiveness so that it doesn't lag so far behind that of a Heavy Medic pair. In my opinion there should still be a benefit to teaming up with a Medic, otherwise you're actually discouraging teamwork and confusing the Medic.

By: J3553

J3553 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:59:07 +0000

Would the range of the taunt be unlimited? Would it have to hit someone within certain parameters? Would you have to be breathing down their freakin' neck for it to work?

Also, Pentadact: POW! HAHA!

By: Pentadact

Pentadact — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:53:38 +0000

J3553: I NOT HAVE COMMENT AT PRESENT TIME! IS FUNNY TO ME!

By: Pentadact

Pentadact — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:51:41 +0000

Heh, like it Pete. It could actually be all electrified and booby-trapped.