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TOM FRANCIS
REGRETS THIS ALREADY

Hello! I'm Tom. I designed a game called Gunpoint about rewiring things and punching people, I'm on a weekly gaming podcast called The Crate & Crowbar, I wrote these two short stories in the Machine of Death collections, and I used to write articles like these for PC Gamer. I'm now prototyping two new games, Heat Signature and one about grappling hooks.

Theme

By me. Uses Adaptive Images by Matt Wilcox.

Fault

What’s Your Fault?

Hoplite banner

The Randomised Tactical Elegance Of Hoplite

Gone Point

Here I Am Being Interviewed By Steve Gaynor For Tone Control

Heat Signature Thumbnail

Heat Signature: A Game About Sneaking Aboard Randomly Generated Spaceships

GRappling Hook Thumbnail

The Grappling Hook Game, Dev Log 6: The Accomplice

Alien Swarm Heroics

A Story Of Heroism In Alien Swarm

FTL Story

One Desperate Battle In FTL

Spelunky Banner

To Hell And Back In Spelunky

Game vs story graph

Games Vs Story 2

Gunpoint Breakdown

Gunpoint Development Breakdown

Max Payne 3

Five Things I Learned About Game Criticism In Nine Years At PC Gamer

This is how you die

My Short Story For The Second Machine Of Death Collection

Clouds

Not Being An Asshole In An Argument

Skyrim Diary - Frostmere

Playing Skyrim With Nothing But Illusion

Mainstream Games

How Mainstream Games Butchered Themselves, And Why It’s My Fault

A-Rock-and-a-Hard-Place-Trio-Jan

A Short Script For An Animated 60s Heist Movie

Dark Messiah

The Magical Logic Of Dark Messiah’s Boot

Arguing

Arguing On The Internet

Stealth Games

Why Are Stealth Games Cool?

Violence

E3′s Violence Overload, Versus Gaming’s Usual Violence Overload

Suspicious Manifesto

The Suspicious Developments manifesto

GDC

GDC Talk: How To Explain Your Game To An Asshole

Crosslink

Listening To Your Sound Effects For Gunpoint

Happiness

Understanding Your Brain

What Makes Games Good

What Makes Games Good

Seat Quest

A Story Of Plane Seats And Class

Beneath Suspicion

Avoiding Suspicion At The US Embassy

Open Worlds

An Idea For A Better Open World Game

Level Up

A Different Way To Level Up

BioShock Ending

How I Would Have Ended BioShock

Meet the Spy

My Script For A Team Fortress 2 Short About The Spy

Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2 Unlockable Weapon Ideas

Football Manager

Don’t Make Me Play Football Manager

EVE Assassins

EVE’s Assassins And The Kill That Shocked A Galaxy

GalCiv 2

My Galactic Civilizations 2 War Diary

Gnome

I Played Through Episode Two Holding A Goddamn Gnome

Machine of Death

My Short Story For The Machine Of Death Collection

AOL

A Woman’s Life In Search Queries

Second Life

First Night, Second Life

SWAT 4

SWAT 4: The Movie Script

Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2 Unlockable Weapon Ideas

Update: This post was written in May 2008, when only the Medic had new weapons. Since then, some weapons have been added that have similar concepts to these. Valve even gave me a special sparkly Equalizer (similar to the Last Ditch Digger here) and a lovely shoutout in the Solider update.

Obviously we’ve all thought about this a bit at one point or another. I thought the most interesting way of doing it would be to think up just one alternative to every weapon, device and ability in the game. Then I realised there are 29 of them, and did it anyway. I hadn’t originally planned on illustrating them – for reasons I hope will be obvious once you see my illustrations – that just kind of happened. Sorry.

I’m more interested in ideas that would make you think about and play a class differently, than in trying to ensure everything is perfectly and exactly balanced. Partly because this is more interesting to talk about, and partly because I don’t think you can just intellectualise about balance and call the problem solved. If I’d never played TF2 and you just described it to me, I would have said the Spy’s near-perfect disguise system was absurdly overpowered, but today people groan that it’s virtually useless. They’re wrong, but still: there’s no substitute for trying this stuff.

I also have some ideas about how this stuff should be unlocked, but they tie in to another major change I’d like to see, so that’s for another post.

Engineer

engineer-shieldspanner

Shield Spanner: when whacking your own full-health structures, this thing builds up an uber-like protective shield around them that can absorb a few hundred points of damage before the structure itself is damaged at all. The Spanner can repair neither the shield nor your buildings, so once they’re up, there’s no point hanging around. Sappers take a very long time to eat through the shield, and don’t disable the building until they get through it. The Spanner can remove them, but again, not repair the damage. It can also add a much weaker shield to the buildings of friendly Engies.

Why? For fatalistic Engies bored of baby-sitting. Once they’ve set their stuff up, the Engy is free to roam around setting up dispensers elsewhere, helping out other Engies, and flanking those who attack his own stuff. A shielded Sentry is resistant to many of the best ways of taking down an ordinary one (Sticky pile-on, point-blank Heavy, sap-and-stab) but vulnerable to attrition.

engineer-portablesentry

Portable Sentry: mini Sentry that can never be upgraded past level 1, but which once built, the Engineer can pick up and carry with him. While carrying the Sentry, the Engy moves at 75% speed and neither he nor the Sentry can fire, but the Sentry is safe from damage. It takes one second to snatch up and three seconds to re-deploy elsewhere. If the Engy is also using the Shield Spanner, the Sentry’s shield is lost when he picks it up, but can be re-applied after deployment.

Why? Lets you play a harrassment Engy: reaping kills by quickly erecting small sentries in unexpected places, and moving them before the enemy has time to strategise around them. This is often more fun to do, and to fight against, than holing up beind a level-three hitting it repeatedly.

engineer-mini-dispenser

Mini Dispensers: Engie can build three smaller dispensers: one that only supplies ammo/metal, one that only heals, and a third that’s a booby-trap. The booby-trap explodes with the force of a crit rocket if sapped or damaged in any way, only damaging enemies. It looks exactly like a healing-only dispenser to enemies (so traditional dispensers are still safe to sap/attack), but to the Engie’s team, it appears as a cardboard box full of dynamite, with dispenser decals drawn on in crayon.

Why? The constant need for metal to take care of your Sentry leads most Engies to put their dispensers directly next to their gun, dissuading them from setting up a useful recharge point for their team’s forward troops. Here, he can do this without sacrificing his vital metal income, and partially protect that forward station against Spies by associating a degree of uncertainty and fear with sapping them.

Engy: Telepault

Telepault: teleporter exit that launches the teleportee forwards and upwards, in the direction the Engy places it. The Engie sees the projected arc before placing, obviously, so he can see where they’ll end up. Teleportees are immune to fall damage until after they land, and trajectories that end in killer chasms like those on Hydro are considered invalid placements and disallowed. The nametag for the entrance pad indicates that it’s a telepault and, in addition to displaying its recharge progress, quotes something like “Safe landings: 3/5″. Players can crouch on the tele entrance to choose to be teleported normally.

Why? I think the virtue of a Heavy being flung over a train is self-evident.

engineer-laserpointer

Laser Pointer: replacement for the pistol – switches Sentry to manual mode while equipped, where it will not fire on anyone automatically, but will shoot whatever the Engy points the laser at when he clicks Fire.

Why? Lets the Engy spy-check and prioritise targets better, at the expense of automatically firing on unexpected enemies, and of being ready to repair the sentry when it’s damaged.

engineer-neutraliser

Neutraliser: techy shotgun firing sparkly blue electronic charges which defuse Stickies, knock off Sappers and drain enemy ammo – but do no damage at all. Defuses a Sticky in two shots at medium range, one at close (close enough to hurt if it went off). Sappers take four shots at medium, two at close.

Why not… a flame-thrower Sentry! I think the real question is: why?

Why not… an ambulatory Sentry! It kind of removes the strategic element of deciding where to put it. And would be rather costly to impliment.

Pyro

pyro-napalm

Hmphalm Hmphs: shotgun that fires napalm globs. They do no damage, but each successive shot slows the target slightly more, adds a few seconds onto their burn duration if you then ignite them with the flamethrower, and renders them unable to put out any flames by jumping in water. Needs reloading after every shot, and this takes a short while.

Why? The Pyro shouldn’t have an effective long-range weapon, but could use a way to catch opponents, slow their escape to safety and force tougher opponents to seek healing rather than waiting for the flames to die.

pyro-fireaxe

Hire Hmph: a longer, heavier fire-axe that always critical-hits against burning opponents, but takes twice as long to swing.

Why? The Pyro could do with a satisfying way to end a fight, particularly when there are allies around who usually get the credit for killing those who would have burned to death if left alone. But it shouldn’t be easy – she/he’s got to get even closer than usual, to an opponent who knows he/she’s there.

pyro-inferno

Hmpherno: flame-thrower with a more fierce but briefer burn, whose forceful stream can be used as a makeshift jetpack if pointed directly down. The force also means he/she cannot move forwards while firing normally, and while firing heat builds up in the weapon that will eventually cause the Pyro to explode in a large and dangerous fireball. Five seconds of uninterrupted fire is enough to blow him/her up. Ten seconds is enough for a nearly-full heat bar to entirely dissipate.

Why? The Pyro needs a little more tactical flexibility, lends him/herself well to comedy, and was born for a firey suicide option. This also means (s)he can propel her/himself into an area quickly by walking into it backwards whilst holding fire – to which the drawback is hopefully obvious.

Why not… a longer range flame-thrower! A class with its defining limitation removed is a class improved, as my grandmother used to say.

Why not… smoke grenades! Not being able to see is fun!

Why not… ignitable oil slicks! You spray an area with oil, then set light to it, and it burns for a while. Leads to exciting wait-around for the enemy team!

Why not… the napalm rocket-launcher from TF! Then we could give the Soldier a flame-thrower, the Spy could have Sasha, and we could save everyone the confusion of having to pick a class!

Heavy

heavy-luba-and-kiska

Luba & Kiska: knuckle-dusters, knock the target flying but never crit.

Why? Pow!

heavy-tatyana

Tatyana: mini-gun with an electromagnetic coil built around its motor which sucks in weapons from fallen enemies (or friends) any time the barrel is spinning. The added weight leaves the Heavy unable to move at all while firing. He can still move while spinning the barrel.

Why? Lets the Heavy perpetuate a winning streak by avoiding running dry on ammo, but hinders his rate of advancement so that it’s not easy to exploit this on offense.

heavy-sonya

Sonya: very obviously stolen Scout Scattergun to replace the standard shotgun. Obviously in that the Scout’s ripped-off hand and forearm are still danging from the triggerguard.

Why? I don’t have a good justification for this.

Why not… an assault rifle! The most boring weapons in all of first-person-shooterdom! Much of TF2′s design philosophy apparently stemmed from the notion that one guy just firing a lot of bullets at another guy is about the least interesting interaction two players can have.

Soldier

soldier-lastditch

Last Ditch Digger: broken trench-shovel whose damage and attack-rate are proportional to the amount of health the Soldier has lost.

Why? Apart from encouraging unlikely comebacks, it makes rocket-jumping spade-attacks more effective. And fun things should always be made more effective.

soldier-screamer

Imploder: rocket launcher whose blasts suck people in rather than knocking them away. The actual damage radius is smaller than a standard rocket, but the ‘suck’ radius is larger than either.

Why? Lets the Soldier cluster large groups of people into a tight space for maximum damage, but sacrifices his ability to juggle enemies, keep them at bay or rocket-jump – though some wall-climbing and ceiling-sucking is doable by firing the rockets above you.

soldier-skeetshooter

Skeet Shooter: shotgun which only and always crits on airbourne opponents. Can be drawn, fired and holstered by pressing Right Mouse, whichever weapon the Soldier is currently holding.

Why? If you manage that, you deserve a crit.

Why not… grenades! Hey, good idea! It looks like Valve completely forgot to put these in TF2, despite how fun it is to get killed by speculatively flung munitions bouncing arbitrarily around corners by trigger-spamming morons! Thank God we reminded them!

Why not… heat-seeking rockets! Because aiming highly explosive projectiles to hit within a few meters of a target is still too hard! Not only should the modicum of skill required to play a Soldier successfully be removed, but it should be removed by an unlockable weapon that only the most skillful players will earn. Perfect!

Why not… a rocket-launcher that’s more powerful but has to be reloaded more often? Reloading all the damn time is the least fun part about playing as a Soldier, and dying in one hit is the least fun part about fighting one. Let’s not exacerbate either.

Demoman

demoman-nogrenades

Not A Grenade Launcher: here’s an idea for the grenade launcher: REMOVE IT. It is a twat. The Demoman’s other weapon, the sticky launcher, is probably the single most devastating weapon in the game, the trade-off ought to be that he has no quick direct attack if an enemy gets past his sticky trap and confronts him. Instead, there’s no trade-off: he’s tough, and if he can aim worth a damn, he’s got a quick to use weapon that’s nearly as powerful as the Soldier’s rocket-launcher and litters the place with deadly spam fire if he misses – or just if he feels like racking up a load of talentless arbitrary murders.

Why? Why would anyone choose to unlock the ability to not have a grenade launcher? That’s the beautiful part; they wouldn’t have to! This excellent upgrade would be automatically applied to all Demomen free of charge.

demoman-creepers

Wee Creepers: sticky-bombs that roll slowly towards nearby enemies, faster the closer they are. If an enemy’s close enough, they’ll follow him at Demoman walking-speed (very slightly slower than most classes). He can only lay four at a time, and they stop for a while if shot.

Why? Almost every situation involving these conjours an entertaining mental image.

Why not? This would allow players on your own team to screw you over by luring stickies towards you. It’s hard to say how much of a problem that would be, because to an extent it would require the enemy Demoman’s co-operation. If you’re close enough to them to lead them at walking speed, he’s probably just going to blow you up straight away.

demoman-goodstuff

The Good Stuff: alternate whiskey bottle which, if not yet smashed, temporarily adds 50 health when doing the drinking taunt – even if it takes him above his usual maximum. The boost decays over fifteen seconds, during which time the Demoman is also immune to fall-damage. The bottle always crits while the Demoman has been airbourne for more than half a second.

Why? Bracing yourself for a good sticky-jump, whacking people at the end of it.

Why not… that swingy dynamite he had in the first trailer! I’m only guessing, but I would think that made it too easy to take out an Engy, all his kit and everyone defending him without actually entering line-of-sight. The swinging charge-up animation was interesting, though – I wonder if you had to stay still during that.

Scout

scout-slugger

Slugger: full-size two-handed baseball bat that does 150% damage, but precludes all other weapons.

Why? It’s clearly an impractical trade-off, but I’d take it.

scout-critmagnet

Freakin’ Crit Magnets: pistol rounds that do no damage, but successively increase the chance that the next hit against the victim – with a weapon that actually deals damage – will be a critical. A full clip of direct hits gives a 100% crit chance. On close inspection, the projectiles stuck into the victim’s body are small nails each skewering a Post-It note with “Crit me” written on it.

Why? It gives the Scout an option to be more of a team player, or to have the satisfaction of running at someone with his bat and knowing the hit will be a crit. It’s also kind of an interesting risk tradeoff to decide when to stop building up your next attack and actually make it.

scout-nutcracker

Nutcracker: leaner Scattergun that always crits when fired directly down on a target from above, but never crits otherwise and has to be reloaded every two shots.

Why? Funny? I should clarify the name, actually, in case it’s a British idiosyncrasy: here, ‘nut’ means head, while ‘nuts’ means testicles. It is the former that this weapon proposes to crack.

Sniper

sniper-hobbler

Hobbler: sniper rifle that reduces the victim’s movement speed by up to 50% if the shot hits below the waist, but only charges to halfway up the normal charge meter. Partially charged shots to the legs slow by proportionally less than 50%. Healing steadily restores movement speed.

Why? Lets the Sniper be a help to his team in situations where he doesn’t have the time or skill to line up a perfect headshot.

Croc: Larger kukri that always crits against Spies, never otherwise.

Why? Vengeance.

sniper-shooter

Shooter: a larger and faster-firing revolver than the Spy’s, to replace the SMG.

Why? I’m forever out-gunning Snipers at medium range when I play Spy – I’m hitting them too often for them to snipe effectively, and their SMG has nothing like my damage output at that distance. Much as I love doing this, the poor Aussies could use a break, and some classic Crocodile Dundee one-upmanship ought to do it.

Spy

Man-Sapper 3000: useable on human targets – drains them of all ammo in a few seconds, and stays attached for five, or until an Engineer whacks it off. Target doesn’t get his ammo back when the sapper’s removed, he has to find more. Must be placed from behind, but does not break disguise.

Why? Good for disabling whole groups of people without necessarily giving yourself away, can lead to comedy escapes from angry mobs of sparking melee enemies.

spy-hackotron

Hack-o-Tron 3000: replacement for the revolver, can hack any Sentry in line of sight from 10 metres away. Hacking takes ten secondsish, during which the Spy must remain still, and at the end of it the Sentry will be reprogrammed to only attack its creator. The Engineer sees his Sentry spark green during this time, so he knows someone nearby is a Spy, and he only has to kill the Spy before the process finishes to abort it. The Spy can remain in disguise throughout, but since he can’t move without breaking the hack, he’s conspicuous for that. The Engy can destroy his Sentry at any time during or after the hacking process, the only disadvantage of which is, well, he’s destroyed his own Sentry.

Why? Firstly, I like the idea of seeing your Sentry spark and having to scan everyone nearby to spot who’s not moving. It’s an easier task for an Engy than de-sapping, because he only has one objective, but the danger is more worrying: losing both his Sentry and his life. Secondly, it’d be fun to find a great place to do this from, and watch the Engy scrambling about above or below trying to find you. Thirdly, realising you’re not going to find the Spy and scrambling for the Detonate control panel before it turns on you could be pretty tense. It has to be only the Engy it attacks once hacked, of course, or noob Engies could ruin the whole game for their team by letting a level-3 Sentry get hacked right in their base.

spy-identity

Identity Thief 3000: large knife that, when backstabbing, utterly shreds the victim and causes the Spy to quickly assume his identity. There’s a puff of smoke as usual, but it lasts only a moment rather than the several seconds that donning a disguise usually takes. The Spy cannot attack again with the knife until after this new disguise is assumed, so it’s slower for repeat-attacks.

Why? For situations when you have someone on their own, but don’t know how long you’ve got until his team-mates show up. Disposes of the body and renders you inconspicuous in one quick move.

Ghost-o-matic 3000: replacement cloaking device which, instead of rendering the Spy invisible, allows him to pass through enemies for ten seconds, and absorb incoming damage. During this time he can’t attack or sap, and enemy fire drains his Ghost charge rather than his health – so it won’t last long if he’s under fire. When his Ghost charge runs out, the Spy is vulnerable but still can’t attack for two seconds, and he gives off a suspicious spark – so spy-checking isn’t any harder. Ghost-mode also takes two seconds to activate, and regenerates fairly slowly when not in use.

Why? This lets him slip through very hairy or chaotic situations where enemies don’t have the time to look for Spies thoroughly, but in which he’d be killed in the crossfire if he was merely cloaked. The kind of crossfires this device would let the Spy get past are also the kind where one least needs his Cloak.

Identi-Kit 3000: replacement for the Spytron 3000 cigarette-case: it’s a device in the same housing which, when pointed at an enemy, tells you their name and health. If disguised, the enemy with your name is tagged on-screen at all times, the way Medic-callers are to Medics. The drawback is that you can only disguise by pointing it at an enemy and pressing fire, rather than selecting a class freely with the number keys. You can do this while cloaked, naturally.

Why? Allows the Spy to identify and eliminate injured targets with his pistol, and lets him strategise around his namesake. The loss of the “Am I dressed as him?” ambiguity is more than made up for by the many “Oh shit, that’s the real Duncan Disorderly!” moments.

Why not… a dummy weapon that lets you make it look like you’re firing while in disguise! This would only increase the believability of your disguise for the brief period before people realised that a disguised Spy can now fire like a real team-mate. Thereupon, you’d still get spy-checked, it would just be incredibly arduous and tiresome for everyone else to do so.

Why not… a silenced pistol! There’s actually nothing terribly wrong with this idea, it’s just not very useful. Obviously shooting people from an unexpected angle is a core tactic of the Spy, and I love doing it, but I don’t think people are pinpointing my location using the directional audio of their 7.1 home theatre surround-sound setup. I think they’re just turning around to find out where they’re being shot from, and seeing me with their eyes. If, like the four thousand people who’ve suggested this, you’re proposing a damage decrease as a trade-off, I wouldn’t touch it with a barge-pole.

Why not… a weapon that can be used while cloaked or disguised! Because… just shut up. Just go away and think about what you’ve done.

More , ,

FunkyLlama: Mmm... I like these ideas... although the Ghost does seem to be absolutely rubbish.

Tom Francis: I guess I spent a lot of words talking up the drawbacks because I thought it would sound over-powered. Please mentally up the 'absorb a few shots' figure until this seems appealing.

There are plenty of obvious tweaks you could make to cloak mode that would be attractive trade-offs: longer duration but longer de-cloak time; immateriality and invisibility, but no recharge; etc. I'm interested in something that would change the way a Spy thinks his way around obstacles more fundamentally. And something that would help me avoid the most frustrating situation as a Spy: when you're perfectly capable of evading detection, but the sheer volume of fire in your only available approach route renders stealth irrelevant.

Charlie: Hack-o-Tron sounds like a great addition. I assume you remain disguised while it is in use?

I personally believe the Sniper is in dire need of some upgrades. I think that something as simple as being able to run while scoped would be helpful.

Tom Francis: Oh, yeah, I seem to have delete the part where I said that.

Sniper's a tricky one, because the general consensus is that he's already played too much. I.e. you have games where three guys insist on Snipin' and you're desperately short of some up-front firepower. The Hobbler was my attempt to make him more of a team player and more effective in the hands of less skilled players, since a lot of, er, less skilled players seem to like playing as him.

Including me, in fact. I'm a terrible Sniper, but I can't resist filling the slot sometimes if no-one else is up for it.

Alex Holland: The Portable Sentry and the Laser Sight are both winners, as is the Last Ditch Digger. I'd be all for the Slugger if it also meant you could finally bat-return demo grenades and stickies, with an overhand smash for crits.

The scout could also do with some method of briefly distracting sentries - something like a baseball, which the sentry turns to fire at once it's thrown, giving the scout a chance to either slip by or start circle-strafing with the scattergun. I reckon this would stop intelligence-camping on 2Fort.

I believe the Pyro is next on Valve's list, though. I'd like a weapon that lets you set yourself on fire for 30 seconds or so, then spread burn damage to enemies via direct contact - imagine the psychological effect of a burning Pyro running at you with a fire-axe. A fire-extinguisher would also be fun - melee damage to enemies, but will put out any burning colleagues. Or replace the fire-axe with a blowtorch, which has a miniscule range but always crits against buildings.

This is slightly too fun a speculative game - I'll stop for fear of disappointing myself when the actual unlockables arrive.

Tom Francis: The Baseball Of Distraction would be great: right-click to throw it directly up in the air, then optionally left-click to bat it somewhere. You could slug it over a Sentry to make it turn round and gun its Engy to death if he's not paying attention. And doesn't have the Laser Pointer.

Andrew: There's some good ideas there. I think the spy's new "absorb cloak" could benefit from an additional power; to pass through enemies as if they were allies, making it harder to detect. Without stealth, most people would be a little suspicious of someone walking back into your base, or even worse, on a defending team you'd see them come out of the enemy spawn, hehe.

I do wonder if they will "rebalance" the demoman - it's a tough class to rebalance since unlike most others inexperienced people can do a ton of damage with it and is good for defense and offence.

In any case, I'd love some of these weapons. I wonder what the state of modding the game is at, if players could add their own bonus weapons or something...hmmm!

Mike: Some of these are extremely good. In particular, as you note, the ones that encourage fun play or unusual situations. The demoman ones made me laugh out quite loud, but I assume none of them were serious. In particular, the self-buff probably isn't such a good idea.

I especially like the Scout bat. And yes, I'd pick it too.

Jason L: I like the blowtorch thing, Alex, but I'd make it a thermic lance.

Tom Francis: Andrew: Yeah, that's what 'immaterial' was supposed to imply, but I didn't explain it properly. I've clarified it now, and changed the drawback a little.

We could reduce the duration of that Demoman booze-buff: maybe just ten seconds, over which it slowly decays. The Demoman's not often charging into combat, so it'd primarily be for when he's about to Sticky Jump and wants to offset the health loss ahead of time.

Rob: You avoided talking about balance, because you're right, it's an unknown science. But despite the coolness of these ideas, there's just too many of them. There's basically a limit to the number of THINGS you can have available to players, not just for practical reasons but because it's near impossible to build a decent tactical experience out of games with tons of weapons and possibilities. People just can't play fast paced games like Team Fortress 2 and multitask the possibilities of n player classes with n weapons/abilities.

Arguably, this is what happened in Halo 3, as much as its playtested to hell and back (and still fairly decent), it's still a diluted and less pure version of Halo 2 (or the original, whichever is your favourite flavour.

Team Fortress is just really well balanced, and adding new features isn't the way to go.. stick with it, refine it, people will play it for a few years then it will die. That's how it works.

Rob: ..that said, I'd like to see that demo-booze implemented with full on screen-swaying drunkeness. It would be a short buff, increased health and relative immunity to physical injury like baseball bats, falling damage and the like.

Tom Francis: I guess your complaint is with Valve rather than me, since they've already announced their intention to do unlockables for every class. But for what it's worth I disagree.

I don't know about you, but I really enjoyed TF2 long before I adequately understood it. It's one of the first things that appealed to me about it: there was just masses of crazy stuff going on.

I'd be happy to find myself in that situation again, not really understanding the exact nature of every weapon being used, but having fun learning.

A lot of it hinges on Valve's art guys' incredible ability to depict things in a way that communicates enough about what's going on. Even if no-one's told you what an Uber is, you have a sense that the big shiny shielded guys aren't about to fall to your Engy pistol. They're able to make a game clear enough that you don't have to understand it intellectually to understand it instinctively.

They're not about to release 29 unlocks in the space of a few months. It's going to take them a while, and I think the plan is that by the time they reach the 'then it will die' phase of a multiplayer game's life-cycle, it'll still be changing in interesting ways.

Tom Francis: Ooh, good call on the fall-damage immunity.

CloakRaider: I laughed unbelievably hard at the pictures, you are an artist!
But isn't the fire axe slightly overpowered? I mean, you set them on fire until they lose 50 health from it, so all the pyro needs to do is set them on fire once and hit them with the axe.

Tom Francis: Heh, thanks. The Fire Axe is certainly an upgrade, like the Ubersaw, but it takes a not insignificant amount of time and clear-headedness to switch to a new weapon while at point-blank range to an enemy who's firing at you. And even if all goes well, you're left standing there with your axe out rather than being ready with an already-burning flamethrower for any other enemies who might be around. I've tried it a few times.

CloakRaider: The engineer shield idea is awesome though. It would be cool if it regenerated slowly, maybe at the speed the medic regenerates health. The sentry doesn't seem to fulfill it's purpose at the moment, seeing as the name sentry suggests it is able to be left on it's own and protect an area, while currently it goes down very easily without an engy, to almost every class.

Lack_26: I'd quite like to see a boomerang for the spy and a sentry gun that could be placed on the ceiling/wall. But your ideas are really good as well.

Also for removing the grenade launcher I would love the ability to take a running landing from a pipe-bomb jump and tackle people on landing, the damage done proportional to the speed and of course, it would knock them down as well.

Think of it, you could put some pipe-bombs down, detonate them flinging yourself horizontally before grabbing that ubered medic with you in a bear hug and you slide to a stop in a heap.

It would be hard but really cool to do, I even draw a picture of it happening,

http://www.vulomedia... ..._devil.jpg

Charlie: I really like Alex's idea of being able to bat grenades back at demomen. I'm not entirely sure how Valve would implement that but it would be a great new dynamic.

Tom Francis: Nice. Wait, does he fly past the Heavy in panel two and hit the Medic? Why are there two guys on the floor in panel three?

Charlie: the bat-back thing comes from a now-removed YouTube video that appeared to show it happening, and it remains a Widely Believed Fact that it can already be done. When our own testing in the office failed, though, I was sceptical. I had the chance to ask Robin, and he agreed that it was a cool idea, but that it doesn't happen currently.

Lack_26: In the picture he flies towards the medic, then grabs the medic (in mid air) and then leaves him on the floor in a pile after sliding for a short bit.

John: Oh God yes on the Inferno flamer, how amazing would it be to see an entire team of pyros arcing over 2fort at the start of the round!

Chris Livingston: What a great post! I'd started something along the same lines but gave up because I just couldn't think of enough stuff to cover all the classes.

Dante: If you want the demo's health buff to be for sticky jumping, why not make it just that? Making him immune to sticky and falling damage for the duration?

I like the baseball idea too, although I think it should knock over anyone it hits, just for the amusement.

Sentry Gun: I love the idea of the Laser Pointer, a cloak that allows you to pass through members of the other team, and the Skeet Shooter.

The Napalm Globs wouldn't be that useful though. You state it'd be a way to catch fleeing opponents, but that's what the shotgun is for in the first place. Just flame someone as much as you can/is safe, and then fire on them with your shotgun. I've gotten about a quarter of my kills with the shotgun dealing the damage to kill, and most of the time the shotgun deals enough damage to let the fire damage kill them before they manage to run to a healing source.

Also, for Tatyana, dropped weapons are usually in your advancement path. Most of the times I run out of ammo are because I was just spamming. Being rooted to the ground would just suck. I guess there'd be situations where it'd be nice, but even just the slow-speed strafe throws some people's aim off enough to reduce damage. I've dodged a good couple of long-range rockets with it.

chronos[ha-g]: I originally mentioned this idea on one of Chris' blog posts:

That flamethrower that shoots fuel you can burn? I thought of a much better alternative that's far more exciting. It still retains the pool of fuel burning thing, but has a far more fun application -

Primary fire shoots fuel, which can stick to ground or enemies. Secondary fire is (literally) a kitchen stove sparker that lights up nearby fuel. That's the same as has been suggested. BUT, if the fuel is still in mid-air when the pyro hits the sparker, the fuel acts as a fuel-air bomb (Since it's nice and aerosolized) and explodes. Lights people on fire and damages them with the explosion, but the tradeoff is that it also damages the pyro. I can imagine a pyro inserting himself into an incoming wave of enemies and wreaking havoc - without surviving himself, either. It wouldn't be too overpowered, since if the enemies he's assaulting react quick enough they can kill the pyro more easily than ever due to the self-damaging nature of the weapon.

Tom Francis: Dante: Only to keep the logic relatively simple. Maybe the falling damage thing complicates that, but it's one of those details that the player doesn't urgently need to be told.

Tom Francis: Sentry: the point of the Napalm is to slow targets that are too far away to reach at all with your flamethrower. The prolonged burn once you catch them up and burn them is just an extra bonus.

Tatyana would be strictly for defense, which is where I usually run out of ammo: I want to stay on the cap or cart to keep it safe, rather than waddle out into more crossfire to fetch fallen guns. You can still slow-strafe by briefly easing of fire but keeping the barrel spinning.

You have to be a bit careful with advantages for the Heavy or Soldier, because they already do such a crazy amount of damage. An interesting path for Heavy unlocks that I didn't explore would be counter-measures: weapons that help him avoid getting nailed by Snipers and Spies so easily. I suspect the viciousness of those two common sticky ends are the reason he's one of the least-played classes right now.

Mike: Thinking about these again, I think the pattern they'll follow will probably be 3rd Unlock = Melee Upgrade, and as you say on 1Fort it'll probably be an 'All Good' upgrade. It's more of a trophy than anything else.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!: I think the engy should get a portal gun in replacement for his teleporters.
He could shoot one behind his sentry, then roam around, free to heal it whenever he wanted to.
Or portal to hard to reach places to put the sentry.
But I guess they might have to make it so team mates couldn't use it.

Sentry Gun: Pentadact: Ah, guess those explanations make them sound a bit more reasonable. I usually waddle through areas mowing down the opposing team and advancing to their respawn/forward base, regardless what team I'm on. A counter-sniper advantage would be awesome, spies don't give me anywhere near as much trouble as those damn snipers. I can't think of how to make a counter-sniper attribute for the Heavy though. Definitely not a minigun that can accurately mow down a sniper from a distance, like some terrible suggestions I've heard of. Accurate minigun=100:0 K:D ratio.

I agree with you on damage too. Damage rates and Crit rates don't need tweaking up or down (Okay, less crit rockets would be nice.) for Heavy or Soldier, they need something special. I'm just not inventive enough to think them up.

thecrazyinventor: I really like the laser guided sentry idea for the engineer. I hope they'd add something like that in the next pack. :)

Nanosheep: thats quite an interesting read, and i love your ideas to improve the classes. My only concern is that the complexity of some spy unlocks may hamper his mobility. Also, for some strange reason i want the spy to get a knife he can perform tricks with (from the trailers)

Alex Holland: Dante: good idea, the baseball could perhaps do a fairly weedy amount of damage against other players - the ultimate weapon for a humiliation kill. Perhaps replace the bat with Bat & Ball, with right click to throw the ball up and a swing of the bat to hit it. Based on timing and aim, you could get all sorts of different trajectories.

Looking at the Medic unlockables, they're all fairly minimal changes to avoid changing game balance too much (although any Scout players who've taken on a Blutsauger may disagree with this), so some of these ideas are probably a bit radical. I suspect the Pyro will just get a same-but-different version of each weapon, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

Tom Francis: "Perhaps replace the bat with Bat & Ball, with right click to throw the ball up and a swing of the bat to hit it."

Hey, that's exactly what I said!

"The Baseball Of Distraction would be great: right-click to throw it directly up in the air, then optionally left-click to bat it somewhere"

"I suspect the Pyro will just get a same-but-different version of each weapon, but I'd love to be proved wrong"

I've just heard hints to contrary, actually. But I agree - most of mine are far too drastic to be likely. That's why I didn't want to do a "Here's what I think they might do" post.

Ten-High Charlie: I always wanted the Pryo's upgrade to be a Rocket Axe. Its like his/her regular axe, but with a miniature chargeable rocket attached to it. Hold down the fire button to rev up the tiny engine at the consumption of the pyro's fuel and let go to do massive damage. The longer fire button is held down the more fuel is consumed (say 1/3rd the rate of the flame thrower, not much but if held down for a while it could consume a good chunk of fuel), and when releasing an axe after a 5 second or above charge it would take a few seconds for the pyro to steady him/herself again to ready his/her Rocket Axe and to switch weapons.

Ten-High Charlie: Or his axe upgrade I mean.

Alex Holland: You're entirely right - I'd failed to read your post, and thought you were proposing that you could either pitch it forwards with the right mouse button, or alternatively hit it with the bat. I was proposing that the bat would be the only way to actually use the ball.

The idea of nobbling a sniper with one of those from the opposite gantry on 2Fort is just lovely.

Tom Francis: Charlie, that sounds hilarious. Would the rocket propel it straight forwards, or would it be attached to the head so it spins? Either way, surely a winner.

Alex, yeah. I was just thinking of situations where the Scout just wants to distract a Sentry as quickly as possible, so he doesn't want to have to wait (presumably on the spot) for the ball to come down - throwing it up would be distraction enough.

Lack_26: Hmm, about the scout's 'Frickin crit magnet'. I think it might work better if they are placed by hand, on the person (this would force the scouts to use hit and run tactics while helping the team), as compensation I think the crit chance should be upgraded, since it is a bit more dangerous.

But it would require balencing, so the scout doesn't just run up, slap it on a guy's face and shotgun him/bat him round the face, that would change the dynamic too much. Perhaps the extra crit chance should only apply to other players, then you could have a pair of scouts double team some poor guy.

Jason L: Maybe a Post-It in one hand and an open stapler in the other? On the other hand, I feel an irrational yearning for any solution that allows us to use the phrase 'Hit him with the Crit Bat'.

Sentry Gun: About the Freakin' Crit Magnets, since critical hits are determined when the shot gets fired rather than when it hits, how exactly would that work?

Tom Francis: Eh, we'd just fudge it: the crit buff applies to shots fired when the Crit Magnet is under your crosshair. Makes it harder for Soldiers, but it's not like they don't crit enough.

Funnily enough, Lack, my first idea for this was a Post-It Note you have to be point-blank to pin to an enemy, and which gives 100% crit chance but only to other people. I changed it to a pistol so it would feel like a pistol unlock, nerfed the crit buff to compensate for the ease of application, then let the Scout self-crit-boost to as a bonus for now having to spend some time building up that crit chance.

Ten-High Charlie: At Pentadact.

I was thinking more of a super-powered regular swing, but after what you said having him lunge forward or run manically forward and shouting incredibly maiming who ever got in front of him/her would add some fun to the Rocket Axe. Nice one.

Kireas: Nice list. I've linked to it on our clan website, so ya should get a few more visitors yet (wtfcountry.com). Incidentally, you've been stumbled. Enjoy the traffic XD

Jason L: Rocket Axe: Xe should either be dragged forward by it at high speed, or spin like a dervish in whatever direction xe was traveling with the axe going around in a fiery blur - in either case, of course, screaming unintelligibly. I suppose the second is hard to animate amusingly from first-person.

Alerdene: I rarely add comments to blogs, but I think your ideas have potential.

Giving it a thumbs up on stumbleupon and I'm hoping to see one of your weapons in the game some day.

Tom: I like these. I've always liked the idea of an anti-materiel rifle for the sniper--less damage to people, but destroys sentries, etc.

roburky: Tom: Armour-piercing acid rounds for the sniper, maybe? Charging up deals extra damage to buildings, so at full charge would destroy a sentry in one shot, but does less extra damage to fleshy targets. It does melt most of the target's ammunition, though, so the sniper is still bad news for a heavy even if he can't kill him in one shot any more. With a nice green dripping effect on the target's ammo count to let him know.

roburky: For the engineer I'd like to be able to build MORE STUFF. Running around dropping buildings everywhere and not bothering to defend them, just replace them later, is a lot more fun. So something that let you have multiple low-level sentries, or multiple dispensers etc, at the cost of being able to get a level 3 sentry.

Sentry Gun: Snipers can already destroy level one sentries, dispensers, and teleporters in one shot. It'd be a fucking nightmare if they were even more powerful against buildings than they already are. Demomen and pyros give me enough problems as is.

Hammer: I composed my own list. Some of it is on the same wavelength, others are not.

Scout: Scattergun -> Nothing. Further increases speed and jump ability, but you don't get that Heavy-killing shotgun.
Pistol -> Radar. Reveals nearby players, Disguised spies appear to be on your team.
Bat -> Taser. Stuns enemy briefly, slowing them by half for two seconds. 30% slower to swing and less damage.
Reason- Make scouts better at their main job (intel recovery, running away) and lessening their ability to take down REAL classes.

Soldier: Rocket -> Lil Fatboy. One-shot for mass damage. Exactly what you said you didn't want. Stops the rocket spamming against single targets and sniper roosts. Also has a slow reload speed.
Shotty -> m1 Garand. Bolt action, moderate damage, good range and accuracy.
Shovel -> Bayonet. Used either on the Garand (right-click to stab) or on its own as a replacement. Slower and harder hitting than the shovel.
Reason: Makes them less of a pain in the ass to fight (CRIT ROCKETS) but doesn't decrease their offensive capabilities. It would remove their rocket jumps, but that would be a choice on the player's part.

Pyro: Flamethrower -> Greaser. Creates an ignitable oil slick. (Again, against yours.) Right click ignites nearby oil with a spark. Increase defense at expense of attacking use.
Shotty -> I considered the flame rockets from TFC, but you make an excellent point against it. Kinda like your idea of a weapon that slows, but I would use caltrops.
Fire axe -> Battleaxe guitar! Living out his fantasies. 10% extra damager, 15% slower, a new taunt sound (no more pretending) and catches on fire if used on a burning enemy, setting all subsequent foes alight.
Reason: The pyro is fun but has major weaknesses. Slowing down fleeing enemies helps keep the kills yours and finish them off in style. Oil slicks would help them hold off against intel rushes.

Demoman: Grenade Launcher -> Dynomite, exactly as in the promo. Two part explosion, low ammo. Good against SGs, bad against mobile foes. A good alternative to the launcher I think, changes the Demo's use slightly.
Stickies -> Goo Bombs. Stick to buildings and all players. Hurts your teams stuff as well. Does less damage and knockback than the normal stickies. Picture this when considering: Scout bombs. Medics could remove them with a bonesaw. (Assuming they would get close enough to try.)
Bottle -> Molotov. Burst into flames on a crit or upon death, whichever is first. Firey carnage, the suicide move Demomen should have. Alternatively, a trigger to the bombs all over the Demo's vest. Nothing like a good suicide bomb to piss off the other team.
Reason: The demo is fun to play, wanted to make it more fun without unbalancing too much.

Engineer: Shotgun -> Magnet shot. No crits, half of damage dealt also steals ammo as metal. Gives engies a reason to stop babysitting and go do some man's work.
Pistol -> Bolt gun. Heal/build from a distance! Uses metal as ammo, does less damage.
Wrench -> Steam-powered Turbo wrench. Faster swing speed for drastically reduced damage. Build faster, less effective in combat.
Buildings -> Building with Bolts! Increase cost to build on walls or the ceiling. SGs on the walls increase strategic placement options, dispensers could be used as stairs, and teleporters could lead teammates to a death chasm doom. Also, give them back their damaging explosions from TFC.
Reason: They need either more reasons to stop babysitting or better ways to do it.

Heavy: Minigun -> Laser. No spread cone, fires a straight beam over long distance. Takes 3x as long to charge, ammo used twice as fast. (Standing on a dispenser is less effective.)
Shotgun -> Bigger shotgun. Really, nowhere to go but make it bigger for this guy. Higher damager for slower reload and/or lower ammo count.
Fists -> Brass Knuckles. Increase damage and crit rate for much slower speed.
Reason: The biggest baddest dudes can only get bigger and badder.

Sniper: Sniper rifle -> Tranq gun. Bolt-action. Knocks out target for a few seconds, no damage. Makes them more of a team player, emphasis on communication. Resitance to tranq drugs after waking up for three seconds. (To prevent spamming)
SMG -> Auto-sniper. Has zoom, doesn't charge for power. Slower than SMG, faster than sniper.
Machete -> Boomerang. Because nothing is better than racial stereotyping. Less damage, alt-fire throws a short distance. Always returns to thrower, can't attack while it is in the air.
Reason: Trying to tone down the one-man sniper domination.

Spy: Handgun -> Drug gun. Just like in TFC, alter their view and make them slower for less damage. Alternatively, steroids. Boost their power but make them see everyone as an enemy and able to hurt their teammates.
Sapper -> Hijacker. Similar to your pistol upgrade, ten seconds to steal enemy building. Stolen buildings can't be destroyed by their original builder, they count as yours for all intents and purposes.
Knife: I couldn't come up with anything else except maybe a garrote that would kill them silently. (Make their death not appear in corner, keeping your position secret. Maybe silence their in-game chat temporarily too. Only works from behind.)
Disguise: Able to change weapons upon disguising? Adds another layer to your foolery, but not a drastic or game-changing one.

Thanks for anyone taking their time to read all that.

Hammer: Upon reading some of the comments, I think my Heavy Laser could do with a bit more toning down. Perhaps a reduced aim speed? (As in, lower mouse sensitivity? Not a percentage of the original, that would be too easy on high-sens users. Maybe something akin to a 0.5 on the scale, but that may be too slow...)

I LOVE the rocket axe idea. Anything that makes the Pyro more of an axe-wielding maniac is fine with me.

Old Schooler: Face it, the spy is going to get its old ability back, most likely in place of the cloak.

Said ability, btw, is feign death-- causes the spy to drop dead or at least look like it has-- while staying in disguise. Can't do anything until he gets up, which takes a second.

CloakRaider: You inspired me to make a small Gmod Comic out of your engineer ideas.
Preview of the last panel.
http://filesmelt.com... ...665249.jpg

WeakLemonDrink: Well, the Axtinguisher is close enough to your idea to class as 1 win for you:

http://storefront.st... ...sage/1608/

Anonymous: Half of those sound like stupid ideas.

Neoviper: Wow, just as I turn on steam today, I see in the update news one of the new pyro weapons. Incredibly, it was almost exactly the fire axe you described, except instead of half speed, it does half damage against non-burning opponents. The part about it always critting against burning players was there though. It's likely they were already planning this, but it's still funny that you put forward almost exactly the thing they're implementing.

Mr.Meh: Wow, they're actually gonna have an axe for the pyro which does crits on anyone that's on fire.

WeakLemonDrink: Actually, I think I prefer your version of Axtinguisher because the limitation makes more sense. Just look at the concept art for it - would you really think that'd only do half damage on a regular player? It's covered in barbed wire, for fuck's sake! No, it makes much more sense for it to have a longer wind up time. Then again, what makes most sense doesn't necessarily mean best game play.

But... this is yet another example of my one and only problem with these new weapons. All the base level kit makes perfect sense in the context of the characters and what they do. The Medigun, for example, charges up health and builds up another charge to deploy a burst of invulnerability. That makes some sorts of sense... but why would the KritzKrieg charge up 100% crits? Same with the Ubersaw - why would it logically charge up your Ubercharge meter? It's just one extra level of logic removed from the original design and it bugs me. It has no effect on how playable and fun the new weapons are, but... eh.

Neoviper: I don't really mind the illogical nature of the new weapons, and if you thought that the game was logical before the updates, try to figure out how shooting a rocket straight at your feet doesn't instantly kill you. The new weapons appear to be a nice way to reward the players that enjoy playing the class, and encourage people to try it out.

WeakLemonDrink: Yes, I do love the weapons and they're great fun. And I was never arguing that TF2 should have realistic logic, I'm just saying that the new weapons seems to break the OLD TF2 logic a bit and thats's the one thing that bugs me a little.

You can see the connection between a healing gun and being able to build up charge for invulnerability, but a healing gun building up charge for crits, or a Bonesaw building up charge, or a fantasy style axe that crits flaming people don't seem very natural when you consider the original, near perfect internal logic of the game. They feel like a forced way to add in a cool new feature, instead.

I hope I'm explaining myself properly, but I feel I'm using the word 'logic' too much and generally babbling.

Tickle: From the sound of the Valve message on Steam today, we'll be seeing that pyro axe with a guaranteed crit against burning opponents next patch. Who knows, maybe they read your article.

Or maybe great minds think alike.

Ixtab: I like a lot of these ideas but your suggestion for the pyro shotgun, that it slows people down, or the same for the sniper I think is a bad idea since if I was to be slowed down I'd just get very frustrated and probably end up quitting, it's supposed to be fun not annoying. Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to move properly.

And to Hammer: I noticed in one of your ideas "Hurts your teams stuff as well." TF2 has been, on the whole, fairly free of greifing (occasionally you get the medics achievement padding or the engis building teleporters in stupid places (ie next to the entrance). Giving people the ability to hurt team mates is a bad idea.

I do like the idea of the scout's bat and ball to distract a sentry or the little moving stickies, as much as I hate stickies the images of a sticky with big googly eyes slowly rolling towards the enemy is just too much.

I like the idea of the spy disguise replacement aswell, the number of times I wonder if I'm disguised as that guy over there. And the irony of the trap dispenser would be great.

I also agree with the comments that the crit me note should be a mele thing so you go staple it to them or slap on the post-it note, make it fairly large so people can see what's going on, a large crit-me note is fairly self explanitory and clarity is a major thing with TF2, like the paper mask for the spy.

I also live in hope for pyros rocketing towards opponents propelled in a blaze of glory and then exploding in a rain of fire. I would probably spam that tactic and sit at my keyboard laughing constantly.

Tom Francis: Yeah, slowing a player's movement is playing with fire a little. But what's surprised me in the games I've played with a mecahnic like this is how fun it is. In Action Quake 2, all leg shots and fall damage slowed your movement to a horrible erratic hobble, and you had to stop everything to bandage up. Somehow it always evoked panic and hilarity rather than frustration. The Hobbler wouldn't be anything like so severe, but perhaps the slow should wear off shortly regardless.

It wouldn't work conceptually, but I'd love it if the Sniper could instead fire rounds that create those jelly cubes from Unreal Tournament 3 - a larger Slow Volume for a more charged shot.

There's a principle I believe in that killing is one of the least interesting things players can do to each other. Just as Valve recognise that bullets are the least interesting way to achieve it. Situations where your enemy can do something to you, and you have the chance to react to that, have more scope for rivalries, comedy, panic and fun. In a killing-only environment, most of your relationships with enemies are too brief to establish interesting emotions. The Nemesis mechanic is only necessary for that reason: within a single encounter, you don't have the time or scope of interaction to inspire personal enmity.

Anyway, I'm not married to either of those weapon ideas, and I'm suspect Valve have a hard-and-fast rule about not altering movement speeds.

Tom Francis: CloakRaider: Awesome!
Anonymous: Thanks!
Hammer: I like the Magnet Shot.
Sentry Gun: you may have a vested interest, but I'm with you on the anti-Sentry-Sniper issue.

Hammer: As much as I would love to see the feign death come back, it simply wouldn't work. Reason? Bodies disappear too quickly. As soon as someone sees a corpse that isn't gone in five seconds they are going to shoot it.

But I'd still love to see it back. Flag-camping on 2fort was a favorite tactic of mine in TFC.

CloakRaider: http://filesmelt.com... ...91df04.png

There you go, I forgot the telepault, but I got most of them.

Pyro Giblets: This must show how much of a newb at FPSes and game design I am, since a lot of the ideas I initially lobbied for for some of the classes have been rather passionately argued against here. Either way, I like a LOT of the ideas here. All that's left is to figure out how to tweak the mechanics.

As far as the Engineer's unlockables are concerned:
3: Wrench - Shield Spanner
I'll admit, the uber-shield gimmick sounds like a really quick way to trap people who're either occupied with bringing down a building, or blasting a building to bits just to advance. As it's written, if a second Engineer with a regular wrench is nearby, he can repair the damaged building while you can re-erect a recently-depleted shield, almost effectively creating super-buildings. As much as I love my Engineer action, this seems awfully unfair. It might be a better idea to have the shield only absorb 100% damage equal to the building's total life once fully erected, and have it gradually decay like the Overheal does (albeit at a slower pace), keep the no-repair drawback. It'll still force the Engineer to watch over his gear in case of malice every once in a while, but otherwise, yes, he's now free to roam about to do other things, too.

4b: Dispenser - Mini Dispensers
Since the enemy cannot tell which dispenser was built by which engineer anyway, why should the booby trap look like the health dispenser only? Wouldn't it be funnier (and slightly more frustrating to Spies) to either randomize the booby trap's look, or allow the engineer to choose which mini the booby trap'll look like? Also, to lessen discouragement of Spies sapping the mini-dispensers, how about an exact 0.75-second delay before the booby trap goes off? If enemies aren't smart enough to get away from a sapped mini, they may pay the price. Those who move fast enough, though, *MAY* escape the blast.

Pyro unlockables:
1: Flamethrower - Inferno
Now THIS is a flamethrower!!! Instead of making the Pyro immobile while using it, why not just have it slow down to a crawl, equivalent to a spinned-up Heavy? Also, change the flame mechanics so that the spew acts more like a laser beam than individual flame bunnies hopping out of a nozzle - ensures more accurate direct blaze kills - naturally, at the expense of greater ammo consumption. Also, as far as it acting as a jetpack is concerned, maybe have that feature usable only while in the air, like how a rocket or sticky bomb jump only works if the user simultaneously jumps.

2: Shotgun - Napalm Gun
Well, this seems like a good idea, but I was wondering if my suggestions will make this an even better all-around weapon. Perhaps give it two shots per clip instead of one shot, and instead of extending the burn time of your target once lit on fire, why not have the burn timer reset to its full ten-second duration whenever the shot lands on your already-lit target? Everything else not mentioned remains the same. One of the main uses for the Pyro's shotgun is to pick off enemies (or hurt them as much as possible) once they escape flamethrower distance, so I figured this would be a sensible way to extend the Pyro's shotgunning philosophy.

Heavy unlockables:
1: Minigun "Sasha" - Minigun "Tatyana"
Well, this certainly does seem like a nifty idea. However, as your comrades will need some of those fallen guns for ammo and metal too, maybe have the coil work only when spinning - when actively firing, the coil stops working so that bullet trajectories don't get altered by ECM. Also, perhaps shafting crit shots (except in cases of receiving a kritz uber) could help balance it out too.

2: Shotgun - Stolen Scattergun
I don't see the Heavy's TOO BIG hands being able to manipulate a Scattergun, in all honesty, although I admit it makes for GREAT humor - perhaps this is revenge for the Scout stealing his sandwich?

Soldier unlockables:
1: Rocket Launcher - Imploder
Hmmm... I honestly think this'll be a more balanced weapon if the damage radius is left unchanged, BUT the actual damage output is 15% that of standard rockets, and GRADUALLY delivers damage over the course of 0.75 seconds rather than instantaneously (like SUCKING the life off rather than simply chopping it off). Since it's an implosion we're talking about, it'll make for good instantaneous temporary immobilization - like, say, 0.75 seconds of pure immobilization, followed by an immediate resummation of physics.

Demoman unlockables:
2: Sticky Bombs - Wee Creepers
Instead of the creepers instantaneously crawling towards a target, try this - the moment they're set, they'll roll towards an enemy within explosion range, as far as the initial explosion range takes them, stops for two seconds, then repeats this activity until either shot at, detonated, or the host Demoman is killed. Drawback: individual creepers are completely disabled after being struck twice (i.e. shot at or whacked at with melee weapon for removal), freeing up one creeper slot for the Demoman. It travels only on the surface it's stuck to (i.e. ceiling creepers stop creeping at the edge of a ceiling), and detonation requires half a second before KA-BOOM! For added humor, have the creepers spew informalities about the enemy team's heads full of eyeballs, and have them grunt unpleasantly when detonated.

Scout unlockables:
1: Scattergun - Nutcracker
Make it a slug-firing twin-barrel shotgun that, yes, delivers guaranteed crits when accurately fired from above, and is otherwise 15% harsher up-close than the scattergun. It fires as quickly as a pistol, reloads 10% slower than the scattergun, but there's only two shots, and the reload has to be made fully before it can be fired again. Also lacks the benefit of a spread-shot.

2: Pistol - Freakin' Crit Magnets
Keep the pistol bit. Make the firing rate 15% slower, and have each landed shot deal only 2 points of damage, no crits. For every five shots landed, your one shot with the enemy in your crosshairs is guaranteed a crit, regardless of distance. (i.e. you unload 20 Post-It notes onto a particular demoman, your next four accurate shots are guaranteed crits). Only applies to you only. And instead of nails, why not make it thumbtacks? They're a LOT less conspicious.

3: Baseball bat - Slugger
I was thinking of this - make the Slugger a wooden nailed bat. Each swing delivers 160% normal bat damage, but there's a 0.75 second cooldown for each strike landed (presumably for prying the bat off the target's flesh, courtesy of stuck nails).

Sniper unlockables:
1: Sniper rifle - Hobbler
I LIKE! It'll certainly make me play a more useful Sniper. Only thing I'd like to say is, don't make the mobility slowdown reversible only through healing. Yes, healing will reverse the slowdown very quickly, but otherwise make the slowdown speed harsher and last a certain duration according to its charge. Like, make the minimum slowdown period without healing 3 seconds, 70% full running speed with a snap hobbling shot, 6 seconds 30% full running speed (Heavy spin-up speed essentially) with a fully charged hobbling shot. If teammates are smart, a slow duck for 6 seconds makes easy prey.

3: Kukri - Croc
Nah, don't make it 100% vs. Spies and 0% vs. everyone else. Make it 20% increased damage vs. Spies and 20% decreased damage to all else, and each hit forces a "blood trail" effect on the target for 4 seconds, as the bleeding blood will leave a trail behind for you to follow.

Spy unlockables:

2: Man-Sapper 3000
Three seconds is too quick to drain a target of all ammo - I say, extend it to 6 seconds for a guaranteed full drain, remains on the body for 10 whole seconds or until Engie wrenches it off (two hits), prevents ammo pickup while it's still on. The target's back will sparkle like a standard sapped building, and target will also announce he's being sapped.

3: Identity Thief 3000
I dunno about you, but for one knife to completely dispose one body is a bit too far-fetched. Why not do this? The backstabbed victim's corpse will instantly be changed into enemy Spy (i.e. backstabbed red Demo instantly becomes blue Spy). Allows for greater fooling of allies into thinking you just took care of a Spy. Drawback: a puff of team-colored smoke surrounding the corpse and you will be in the air for two seconds before the disguises are fully assumed, and the ID Thief 3000 does its thing ONLY when disguised; disguise-less, it's a standard knife, but lacking insta-kill backstab.

And I just stayed up way past my bedtime to post my critiques of your ideas here. Folly-some, that is. Hope you find my two cents something insightful.

Sentry Gun: Another note about Snipers vs. Sentries: if a couple snipers (maybe 3, not exactly sure) all fire charged shots on a sentry at once, it's down. Instantly. Though I doubt anything short of clans would actually be able to organize this, and the loss of three people for that time wouldn't be too great, I'd imagine it'll work. Too well. All the damage would fit into an instant space between wrench hits. I figure the same thing would work with rockets too, though requiring more soldiers than snipers.

Also, snipers can usually get an engineer from behind a sentry by the engineer not realizing he's got his arm sticking out the side.

Tom Francis: Cheers Pyro, some good thoughts there. I'll respond to the bits individually:

3: Wrench - Shield Spanner
I meant to imply that other Engies can't repair the Shield-wielder's Sentry either - otherwise it's best for everyone to switch Sentries and that's a bit counter-intuitive. The Shield Engy also can't re-apply a shield once it's been shot off. The idea is for it to be a totally build-and-forget sub-class, so he can concentrate on harassing the Sentry's attackers instead of babysitting the Sentry itself. A steady decay messes that up a bit.

4b: Dispenser - Mini Dispensers
I did consider randomising the appearence of the booby-trap to its enemies, but it means the Spy absolutely cannot afford to ever sap a mini-Sentry ever again: the penalty is too extreme. Right now it's also a little tricky to avoid sapping something that's near something you want to sap. A delay's not a bad idea, but that either lets the Spy get away clean every time or he doesn't: the former undermines the point, the latter doesn't solve the extreme-penalty problem.

1: Flamethrower - Inferno
Yeah, making the Pyro very slow while firing is probably fairer. Nice idea about the flame-jumping, too: that would make it more intentional and probably more fun.

2: Shotgun - Napalm Gun
Not married to the clip-size - that's a balance thing that would come out in testing. But the idea was primarily to reverse the Pyro's normal use of the shotgun: right now it's a finisher-weapon once someone's alight. I want a prep-weapon that lets you butter up a batch of bad guys before you fry them. And the satisfaction of knowing that you prepared that roasting so effectively that you don't /need/ to chase him: he's going down. I didn't so much want to extend the Pyro's shotgunning philosophy as provide a different one.

1: Minigun "Sasha" - Minigun "Tatyana"
I'm not too worried about hogging ammo from the other classes: the Heavy's the only one who can't always afford to roam around to find more. And it's a defense weapon, so you're usually going to be close to your base.

2: Sticky Bombs - Wee Creepers
I like your idea of making them vulnerable to shots, although it might undermine the uniqueness of the Engy's Neutraliser. I'm not sure what the rationale is in making the Creepers stop every two seconds - just balance?

1: Scattergun - Nutcracker
Eep, sounds a bit devastating. I think giving the Scout a powerful ranged weapon might spoil some of the fun of the class: the need to get really close to people much stronger and more powerful than you.

2: Pistol - Freakin' Crit Magnets
The idea was to let the Scout be a bit more of a team player, tagging enemies for pegging by his friends, so making the crit bonus only apply to him would undermine that. To be honest, I need to rethink my Scout suggestions in light of Whomper's clearly superior baseball idea.

1: Sniper rifle - Hobbler
You're right: the hobbling should be temporary even if unhealed.

3: Kukri - Croc
Good call on the blood-trail idea. I'd like to keep at least an increased crit chance, though: just increasing damage percentages is a bit abstract and behind-the-scenes. I want them to have the cathartic CRACK of a good revenge-crit.

2: Man-Sapper 3000
Probably right on the drain-rate. I'd like to let victims grab ammo if they can, though: it wouldn't unsap them, just postpone their impotence. "Spy sapping mah self!"

3: Identity Thief 3000
The idea is it's electrified or something: the purpose is mostly to feel awesome. Creating a dead spy body would be more convincing, and a nice nod to his old play-dead ability, but it probably wouldn't feel any better than a normal backstab. I really like the idea of emerging from a bloodbath in perfect disguise.

Pyro Giblets: For the Demoman's Wee Creepers in regard to being countered by the Engineer's Neutralizer, I was thinking of this: perhaps make the Neutralizer the BEST method of dealing with the Wee Creepers, as each EMP blast is about the size of a Pyro's head - large enough for the Engineer to not have to aim EXACTLY right. (This is, of course, assuming the Neutralizer fires as fast as a shotgun.) I tried removing stickies with a shotgun, a pistol, and a melee weapon, and you'd either have to be really close or have exceptional aim to actually "hit" the sticky. And for its two-second movement delay, I figured two seconds is long enough for a target to move away if the Demoman doesn't detonate their bombs immediately, and it won't be so easy for an enemy to unwittingly lead Creepers straight into a stronghold.

As for the Nutcracker, hmm... you may be right. The clip size and reload speed may not be enough of a drawback to balance out the new benefits. Perhaps make it sawed-off, so that there's an accuracy fallout over distance?

For the Man-Sapper 3000, I suppose it'll be alright to let victims grab ammo while sapped (as it'll only serve to waste ammo for others). I just realized after waking up this morning that the Man-Sapper should only affect reserve ammo, not clip ammo, forcing sapped victims to really make their shots count before they run out. (Pyros with their flamethrowers and Heavies with their miniguns - two very threatening anti-Spy classes when played right in close quarters - are shit outta luck as a result.)

Identity Thief 3000: oh, so it's a knife powered by magical technological doohickery! Instead of the victim's body being shred up, why not make it sparkle pretty (as the innards are boiled and fried) for a second before evaporating? I still think the insta-kill backstab effect should work only while disguised, otherwise it's a standard melee weapon; otherwise, you'll have a lot of face-stabbing Spies in knife fights suddenly not being able to attack because they're too busy donning a new disguise.

Haggus McGee: E GAWSH - he was right about the pyro's axe. I like the sound of the new shotgun, but not the flamer - it neesds to be more normal. So do a lot of the others come to think of it. Great ideas which need to be adapted, the rocket launcher is spot on though - i couldn't previously think of a replacement for that. The nade launcher rocks. I'll take you on with it and show you how two shots can take you out. maybe three 4 pyro + soldier. the new nade launcher could have 6 ammo, less damage, weaker launch power, but like a bouncy ball that would explode after 5-6 bounces or impact on enemies - that could be quite funny

Tom Francis: I wasn't suggesting scrapping the grenade launcher because it's ineffective - just the opposite. But I've since decided the real problem is the indestructability of Stickies. I think all weapons should be able to blow them up, and the proposed Engy Neutraliser should be the only way to defuse them harmlessly. That way the Demoman would actually have to hide them - currently that's often superfluous.

Caleb: I love all of your ideas (i am talking to everyone)

Caleb: About the Demoman's melee (The Good Stuff) it should have a limit like:
1. You have about five drinks before the bottle is empty
2. The bottle breaks easier

Krylzay: You have some very good ideas. I wish that valve would take these to heart when making their own.

Darak: While the Hack O Tron seems nice it faces one big problem, spychecks ... I don't believe you can stay in one place for ten seconds and not be fired upon till dead, at least not on the servers I play on. Ghosting would be nice though as it would make disguises useful again by allowing for a time during which spychecks would conclude you are what you are disguised to be, of course they'd need to modify disguises slightly to turn most of them into something that can be believed since as is at least two are unpractical. Having said that I can't help but mention that if you go into the ingame screens to modify your weapons you can see which weapons are changeable for all classes and for the spy it is only the pistol and knife.

Matt: The Hack-O-Tron sounds like a total failure. You'd never, ever, ever be able to successfully hack a sentry since an engie could just demolish it whenever he pleases.

Rob: Hey, an idea about the spy, why not a knife that when used to backstab, kills without "showing" the little symbols on the top right of the screen? I know anyone who pays attention sees that stuff and begins spy checking a lot more because of it. I guess the draw back would have to be unusable in some situations, or maybe removing in the instant kill effect of the backstab?

Torm: Well done with the pyro idea's. They weren't to far away from the weapons in the new update. Don't like all the idea's but your sarcastic suggestions are bang on why they should never be included.

Tom Francis: Matt, the idea is the Engy doesn't know exactly when the Sentry will turn, so he doesn't know how long he's got to destroy it. Since it's very hard to hack a Sentry without being discovered and killed, the Engy's got a good chance of finding you and killing you, so he's not going to want to blow his Sentry up as soon as it starts being hacked.

As with everything, the figures are just illustrative - possibly much less than 10 seconds would be more appropriate in practise, but it's pointless to speculate.

Rob: that could be interesting. I think it's often the stabbing and screaming sounds that tip nearby players off, so I'd also like it to kill them silently, or just very very quietly. It'd probably be less satisfying without the meaty sound and kill message to acknowledge your victory, but that might appeal to some mindsets.

Hammer: Rob and Penta:

How about a garrote? Silent kills, but unusable for normal combat? I think the benefit of no alerts is a fair trade for no backup slashing if you miss the kill.

Fred: How about the Hack-o-tron,left-click let's you shoot(slightly less damage than the revolver) and right-click hacks?

Ultrimo: The spy and sentry sparking idea is taken off Perfect Dark Zero am i right? lol

Love the ideas and about the silenced revolver, it could have no sound and whoevers being shot has no notification he's being hurt, because people usually use that to find someone.

Matt: Love all of it, but the enginneers portable sentry ^has^ to deploy if the engy is killed while carrying it. The lols are evident :D

Timothy: If you make every class better, whats the point? It only increases the risk of unbalancing the game...

Tom Francis: By changing the game, you keep it fresh and interesting for years.

Matt: Seconded, motion passed.

Ultrimo: Nope, never played it.

Ultrimo: In Perfect dark you were able to take over enemy proximity mines with a p90's secondary function which was a laser. There were also sparks on the mine to aware the original owner it's being taken over. Which is why i assumed you had played it since your idea was very close.

David: I like the concept of either the spy or the scout getting some kind of map that shows enemy posistions and sentry guns and such. This would need to have some kind of restriction like having the map cover the entire screen while out. This would be greatly useful to the spy since I cant tell you how many times I've passed around a corner face first into a pyro.
The Silenced PPK also wouldn't be such a bad change for a spy since the only way an enemy knows where they are being shot from is the red flash that appers on a certain part of your vision. (most people forget that this even exists, its all subliminal now) So get rid of the flash if you're being shot at by the Silencer. It would be made even more fun if being shot in the back doubled the damage.

Ideas I REALLY like: Wee creepers. you're right this is a great alternative strategy for the demo; adds alot of good posiblilitys. Last Ditch digger. Assuming that at critical health he becomes a maelstrom of crits and damage. this is even made more fun by the fact he can hurt himself and can find some of the most interesting hidey-holes in the game. I imagine sitting above a group of unsuspecting enemys at 5 health and just dropping down and unloading on all of them, preferably accompanied by the signature soldier shreak. Hammer's exploding demoman bottle: any sort of kamikazee attack is downright awesome.

Gnarlyducks: As much as I would love for Feign Death to come back, ragdoll effects make it too hard to implement.

GuySingular: God, the imploder sounds orgasmic.

bob: You're really fucking stupid.

Tom Francis: Touché, sir. Really raising the level of debate there.

Azzen: Obvious troll is obvious, bob.

muffin: engi with door blocking shield??

they can ajust it to different widths
only scouts can double jump over it....
doesnt stop ur own team...
each level of shield regenerates faster than the last....level 1= 30 seconds
level 2= 25 seconds
level 3= 15 seconds

enemy spys can move through though...and if the power box is destroyed then the shied is too??
this would replace sentry...

muffin: scout with gold and dimond (bling) bat? 100% crits from behind?
smg insted of pistol?
more accurate scatter gun?

muffin: spy with zapper which can reverse enemy teliporters and make them on your team....also reverses the direction...so that your team can mass telli into the enemies base??

The Wookie: Heres an idea for the spy

Knife replacement - Syringe

Remember Hitman? This replacement for the knife gives you a poison syringe. It does no damage on a slice, and causes disguise loss. But on a successful back stab, you inject the enemy player. Other players would just see you and your victim standing still for the duration of the kill (2-3 secs). you do not lose your disguise, and the victim will remain standing for the length of his re spawn time, upon which he will explode. The killcon for you successful syringe will still be shown, and if you fail a backstab, your disguise will be lost.

Jamie: Not to suck up to you for being a writer in my favourite magazine but, I actually really loved the Imploder (especially), Mini Dispensers and Laser Pointer ideas.

My problem though is the whole Hack-a-Tron thing. If it makes you that conspicuous then it's probably just as risky if not more risky than the whole sapping tactic, so I'd probably just take the Sapper + Revolver instead. If its main purpose was to humiliate the engineer for getting killed by his own SG if he doesn't destroy it first, however, then yeah, I guess that's pretty good for 'teh lols' :D

Tom Francis: Yeah, Doctor Disaster totally put me to shame with his much better idea for a Sentry turncoat device: spraypaint that makes the team's other Sentries target that one as if it's an enemy. Came up in the comments here: http://www.pentadact... ...k-fortress

muffin: sniper,
armor piercing rounds??
faster recharge when scoped in and does more damage??
scope so that the sniper can see the spys??
throwing knife instead of machete??
more accurate smg?

Jamie: I'm going to make it clear that this was not my idea, but one said by someone I was playing with the other day.

He proposed that the Demoman get a new bottle, that he can use when he is on fire, and he smashes it over his head and blows himself up, doing strong damage to all nearby. He was probably joking, but the more I think about it the more likely this seems like just the sort of thing you'd see in a brutally funny game like TF2.

It'd be good for offensive demomen who find themselves ambushed by a pyro, with otherwise very few options. The high explosive damage could be balanced by the fact that it takes like a taunt animation (like the heavy's sandvich) to activate it, making him vulnerable.

Here is my own idea:

To replace the sticky bomb launcher, the Demoman could have a Petrol bomb (could be a humourous adaptation of the bottle model) or some kind of Fire bomb that he can use to place patches of fire that place damage over time effects on any who cross it.

The downside is that a big wall of flames blocking a bridge is more obvious than hiding stickies around the walls of the bridge, so it isn't going to get kills as effectively.

The upside is that it is great for discouraging people from going in that direction, so it can be very helpful for the Demoman's team - like, snipers can pick people off more easily as they get stopped by the flames, or engineers can construct bases more easily before people come over and attack them, because they have been considerably slowed down by the flames.

Roadrunner: The demoman should get haggis, like the Heavies sandvich even though he doesn't need it.
The medic can have some wienersausage.
The pyro can have..uh...Barbequed steak?
The scout can have latka and chicken kniedelach soup because he's actually Jewish.
The spy can have a croque monsieur?

It just goes on and on.

J-Man: The sniper can have a shrimp.

muffin: soldier,
rocket launcher which does no damage to rocket jumps but does no crits?

muffin: engineer,
mortar sentry to replace normal sentry?
has much longer range and bombards an area?

fire senty would be amazing, but it has lower health and can only be upgraded to lvl 1. (not my idea)

muffin: for soldier....
a laser guided rocket?

would only have 2 rockets before needing to relode,
has only 10 rockets in total,
rockets fly slower,
cant do crit hits.

this would make the soldier much more accurate....also fun :)

muffin: spy...
man sapper is a great idea...
altho i think hack o tron would b too obvious,
maybe replace sapper for a hack sapper??
takes 5 seconds to hack the sentry, and during this time the sentry is innactive. (engi can dissable it at any time) but this would reveal the spy diguise, but after the 5 seconds the sentry would fire on the other team....

this would be great fun...as the engi only has 5 seconds to disarm.

MonsieurMonkey: Looking back it's pretty crazy how close the Pyro ones are...

thinks those ideas are shitty.: i'm sorry, but those are all bull shit, let me tell you the next weapons. spy's knife is going to be replace by a garrote. ((a steel rope with 2 handles)) used when cloaked, doesnt give you away if in dissguse, and will instantly crit from behind.. saddly, the useless "scilenced pistol" idea might be used, but the pistol will have better acuracy and is guessed to do crit dammage from the behind.. i'm not sure about scout, but the 2 hand bat idea isnt too bad, and nether is the idea of the lasor pistol that points and fires a nearby sentry. but i think it would be nice to have a custom model for that, mabe.. a lasor pointer? and heres just an idea from me. "Spy Cam" a small tripod thats breakable just like any other item. but, shows a small video feed at the top left corner. what this feed does, it shows a feed of the area its pointed and will show any spys as a blue glowing outline. ((if sapped it will show all friends as sparking blue outlines and may cause nearby sentrys to fire at team mates, just an idea. also harder to sap)) that idea may not work because of the work needed put into it. another idea is a spy bomb, works like a sapper, but when placed onto a building, it will protect it from sapping. ((ie, it will take away the spys cloaking and shoot at the spy.)) but once its been used, and broken by a spy trying to sap, it will have to be used again, will cost 60 metal to make. and can be pulled out via buildables list, another update is a new buildable list. ((bigger, more slots.)) possibly only one new weapon, just more sentrys.

thinks those ideas are shitty.: and for soilder i think a laser guided rocket is in order, does crits left often and fires slowly, and only 3 rockets per fire, but is laser guided and can be aimed. ((no more "SHIT I MISSED"))

Tom Francis: I'm at a loss.

Jazmeister: Whelp, might as well kill myself then. Not much to my life in comparison to the sheer bulk of that solid paragraph.

Alexander: @Wookie a few posts back
This doesn't seem very useful at all. The only benefit being that you don't loose your disguise, you still have to stand perfectly still behind someone, looking very suspicious, while they're screaming on their mic for their buddies to turn the hell around....

Wait, that sounds awesome!

muffin: i think that spy is already maxed out for weapons.
I mean that if the spy had the silenced pistol, garot wire and man sapper....he would b too powerfull....too hard to kill n boring??
Its really hard to stop a spy zappin ur sentrys already if ur engi!...

Jazmeister: Ahem:

One disposable spy knife that kills an ubered target. Oho!

J-Man: @Jaz;

That's actually a really good idea. I presume you can replenish your supply by picking up dropped melee weapons, perhaps?

Jamie: Demoman, actually, should get a mine.

Lets him get ambushes like he does with stickies, but he doesn't have to wait there waiting to detonate the stickies. It lets him be more mobile.

The downside, I guess, would be he can't place as many or the damage is lessened or something like that.

Oak: Because the demoman isn't "mobile" enough in current form.

Jamie: No wait, I mean the downside would be he can't launch them, like you can with stickies. Just places 'em.

So he'd get to be more mobile within his own base, defensively, placing his traps and not having to watch them.

But he'd be far less offensive.

Jason L: Or far more offensive? Spawn, mine, mine, mine, mine and out the door to shoot faces? Good entrance routes are almost all good exit routes.

Jamie: Well he's going to be far less of a sentry gun killer with mines rather than sticky bombs.

Of course he can still be as offensive with mines, just like he can be with stickies now. The fact is though, he is still at his best on defense, even more so with the mines.

If you want, it could take like 1-3 seconds to place them.

Bret: Heck, he be offensive when totally unarmed.

I mean, he's a one eyed drunken scotsman.

If he can't offend everyone, he isn't really trying.

Jazmeister: The man needs to fucking fart already. Not a single fart in any valve game, not even the boomer makes a fart noise. They're so repressed, I feel sorry for them.

I jizzed my pants: lol i love the spy ideas. maybe the gohst thig should be completely invisible? i mean it is an unlockable. it is supposed to be better

muffin: unlockables are meant to be better...
but they must have a downside!

eg....pyro backburner has 100% crits from behind...BUT NO COMPRESSION BLAST...
see??

otherwise everyone would just stick with the better weapon!

Cmdt_Carpenter: I just realized today that the Spy could get a silenced pistol. It would work in that it would be slightly less accurate with more of a damage drop off, but the target has no direction specific damage indicator (The whole ring is red to tell them they are being hurt) to tell them where they're being shot from.

Jason L: Penultimate paragraph of the post?

Tappity: They actually made the fire axe didnt they?
I think SOMEONE reads your blog ;D

Dante: They're making a baseball too, thieving gets.

Jason L: Is it thieving, though, if you press it into their hands while begging them to take it?

Jason L: Oh wait, I hadn't actually read the article - that's a baseball, but not this baseball. Geez, we thought the Hobbler and Natascha were dangerous game design; now they're stunning people? Disabling the avatar must not be as infuriating as it seems, I guess.

DoctorDisaster: I don't think it's going to be as much an issue as it sounds. I suspect that you launch the baseball with a taunt-like windup, during which the scout sings "banala dat da-naaaaaaaa!" and the target has plenty of time to dodge. In other words, only an issue in places like Dustbowl 1A where you're going to have people crowding through small, unavoidable doorways. And I gotta say, I like the time-increases-with-distance trick: could this make the coordinated scout/sniper pair the new heavy/medic?

DoctorDisaster: Sorry for the double post, but the new scout stuff is up. Just the community maps, sadly: one arena thing nobody cares about, and CP_Junction, home of the most brutally uncappable final point I can think of.

I feel bad for the people who put work into Arena mode, but seriously, Valve: we don't like it. We don't play it. It's time for arena to go the way of Territory Control.

Kadir: @DoctorDisaster

Speak for yourself. I, and many others, actually like arena. Let's face it, if valve only ever did what was popular the only maps we'd have would be payload spamfests like goldrush.

Oh, and just reading the article: the porta sentry is completely useless. You can place a normal sentry in 5 seconds anyway and you don't have to move slowly while doing it. Before you say so, metal is not usually an issue: if your sentry gets just 1 kill before you have to move it, 100 from the weapon + 60 from the scrap = perpetual sentries. For added insurance, place a dispenser somewhere relatively safe nearby. That way, if 2 of your sentries are destroyed in a row without getting any kills, you can retreat to your hopefully-full dispenser.

Tom Francis: So make it one or two seconds. Don't get hung up on the quoted figures: as I say at the start, there's no point arguing over which exact values would be balanced.

DoctorDisaster: @Kadir: I am speaking for myself. I'm also speaking based on a quick check of the facts -- Valve posts Steam statistics at http://store.steampo... ...com/stats/. If anything, arena's stats have actually worsened since the initial tepid reaction. The only non-arena maps with unpopularity even comparable to the arena maps are ctf_well and hydro. And by 'comparable' I mean 'better by 50-75 hours.'

Lumberyard is the exception, but its stats are still inflated by it being the only supported alpine map. Just watch where it goes when the scout update changes that. Not to mention that while it sneaks past hydro, it's still being absolutely flattened by Steel, the most obviously niche-interest map supported.

And keep in mind that these are total server hours. Arena maps are played on arena servers, and don't have to compete with the other play types for hours on that server. Hydro, on the other hand, has to claw every server hour it gets out of the clutches of Gravel Pit, Dustbowl, and Badwater.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't always like what the stats tell me. Goldrush and 2fort rank way higher than they deserve to. Gravel Pit deserves more love than it gets. But the entire arena mode -- every map combined -- accounts for about as much playtime as Turbine alone. Compare this to the other new game mode, payload, and just try to tell me arena isn't a flop.

Dante: Why the Goldrush hate?

Seriously, I've heard this a lot lately, people on the last server I was on complained when it switched from bloody Badlands or Turbine to Goldrush, dullards.

DoctorDisaster: I wouldn't put Goldrush down there with the original ctf_well or anything, but it's not very well-balanced. There are way too many easy stall points that just turn into trench warfare, and the difficulty curve veers wildly all over the place. Badwater is way more fun to play, not to mention a whole host of CP maps.

Although you may have to take that with a grain of salt: I'm one of the 'dullard' fans of both Badwater and Turbine. I understand why they're not everyone's cup of tea, but I like what they bring to the table.

DoctorDisaster: I meant "badlands" in that second paragraph, of course. Maybe I'm more of a dullard than I thought.

Dante: By 'what they bring to the table' you mean Scout dominated reflex killing pseudo deathmatches?

DoctorDisaster: I'm primarily a medic and a terrible twitch gamer, so no. I like turbine because because it's smaller and more tightly focused than any other supported CTF map, and has well-defined places for every class to shine. Badlands I like for more or less the opposite reason: it's so huge and sprawling that the action is really freeform and unpredictable, but the matches begin and end very quickly because of the quick-capping points. Both maps have a very different feel from other maps of their game type, and I like that break from the usual.

Tom Francis: I like Badlands but not Turbine. Goldrush I only like on defense - map 2 cap 2 I find one of the most tedious stages to assault on any map. I like Badlands because there's always a quiet path to where I want to go, and dislike Turbine because there isn't.

DoctorDisaster: Update's up: an energy drink that makes you dodge bullets.

Even assuming you can still be hit by projectiles and melee weapons, this is insane.

We also get the achievements list.

muffin: ....
well personaly i think that TF2 has some serious team problems....

basically which ever team at the begining of the match has the most players....thats the team which is going to win!!
this happens almost every match.

however i dont know how valve would fix this issue???

Ant: Also, the spy could have some sort of device where all the enemies that he is near can succumb to team damage. Perhaps in a radius of 7-10 feet. The whole point of a spy is being able to blend in, and this would add a bit of "Wait..you sure a spies here?"

Basically, it would prevent people from spy-checking so much because they could kill a team mate if the spy is standing next to them. So is it worth the trade off for the flamer to set the 4-5 people you've surrounded yourself with on fire, just to kill you?

It'd add a very cool tactical element.

Jason L: Mmm...but aside from being nonsensical and 'hidden', that does offer everyone the certainty that they are in fact hitting a Spy. As things stand now, only the flamer affords a sure diagnosis; a Spy with a cool head can simply bluff through many Spy checks, which makes for rewarding headgames. I know I wouldn't touch it with a pole.

Spy: Funny looking back and comparing the similarities between the actual updates: Makes me wonder if they took some ideas? ;d

Jackrabbit: The Hire Hmph was used I think

Anonymous: you sir, are an idiot. The Demo man does not need to have his grenade launcher taken away. Also, a kukri that always crits against spys is a little to good.

Jackrabbit: Are you kidding? That thing is sodding unbeatable! though I've had very little experience with TF2 when I played I saw people annihilated by that thing

ZomBuster: Achievement unlocked : Stumbled upon James

hi: wow these ideas rock!
the spy update is coming out May 21 2009, so you may have to check that out.
It'll be so fun being Pyro when everybody's a Spy. :D

ZomBuster: Meet the spy hints at something like the
Identity Thief 3000

Maybe maybe

im an orphin: i think u should let the engi be able to like pick up his stuff and move it for some reason or have a golden glove or something that comes with lots of wrenches so he can throw them but he gets slower the more he has

Jazmeister: I was thinking about letting the engie move buildings, Orphin. Initially I had an idea close to something someone mentioned on the steam forums; it was a sapper that didn't damage a sentry, but disabled its operations and did not alert the engineer, perhaps lasting only five seconds or so. It would force an engie to stay at their post and keep spy checking, so the great engies would keep the sentry somewhere relevant. Great, right?

But then, it's not really the engie's choice that way, is it? You've got a spy unlock designed to affect the engie play style. It's not elegant. But I really want to give engineers an incentive to be more offensive. Then I realised:

Instead of a teleporter, the engineer could have a design for a sentry-teleporter. You would build the entrance on your own sentry itself, then place the exit on the front line. It would take about the same time as a normal sentry gun to build, and then would take one or two seconds to teleport the sentry gun (it can't fire during this window) and then disappear - absorbed into the sentry, or whatever (it shouldn't give out collectible metal debris).

Engineers who have no problem going on the offensive and keeping a lvl 3 sentry at the front line won't need this tool, and will doubtless prefer the constant influx of new troops provided by the original teleporters.


While I'm here, and since I keep running into the post limit (:D), I should say that I think the Heavy should have a laser cannon that is accurate and mildly damaging (like a long-distance flamethrower without burn damage) that causes sentries to go apeshit - speeding up wildly, spinning, firing missiles everywhere, the works. It wouldn't damage it much faster than the scout's pistol could, though.

Nintendow1: wow... that was amazing, i totally loved your ideas, keep up the awesome work and ideas, expecially loved the laser pointer and man sapper. I think that it could be a good idea to have a tv and camera, this could be used to see what is happening in the intel room from your spawn, what is happening in the sewers, other teams base, ect

cake: Hey you have great ideas for the game but i think you should tweak the laser pointer for the engineer, allowing him to point it at anyone of his teamates to find out if one is a disguised as a spy this would be very helpful for Engineers.
The Telepault is pure genius allowing to throw pyro's and scouts into a huge group of heavy and medic pairs,this would be very useful and i would agree seeing a heavy fly through the air would actually be quite amusing.
I think you should change the axe thus hitting an enemy with this axe would ignite that enemy this way helping pyro's get the achivements and will be a really fun item to have as a pyro, but you should also make it like the flare gun as soon as you ignite them if u ignite them again it does a mini crit this would be helpful so every single pyro weapon actually has to do with fire.
Thanks please write back knowing what you think of my ideas,

Afronanny: I like most of these ideas, but there are a few that I don't particularly care for. These are:
all the engie ideas except the dispensers and the laser-sight. Those two I think are in good taste, but the others seem a bit unbalanced.

Pyro Smoke grenades could be fun, especially when thrown into sniper towers >:)
I like the ferocious flame-thrower and the napalm-shooting shotgun. The axetinguisher has taken your fireaxe idea though.


I like the Soldier Shovel idea, it actually gives a use to it. I think the imploder idea could be interesting, especially with a soldier-demoman combo or a soldier-soldier combo. Draw them together, push them apart. I agree the damage would be reduced though. Maybe 75% that of normal rockets.

The heavy ideas are nice, except the scattergun. I think it would be off-personality of the game. Just a tad too gruesome.

I have a feeling the wee creepers would get VERY annoying, more so than regular stickies. (if possible) I like the good stuff though. Maybe a focus adjustment to the graphics so you couldn't see as well? To appear drunk?

The freaking crit magnet idea was hilarious, and practical. I love it. Makes the scout have a use in TEAM fortress two ;)


The hobbler seems to even the game out a little more, but the croc and revolver don't seem to have a point. I think you are giving too much importance to crits.

I love the man-sapper and hack-o-tron idea (there has to be a way to destroy a level 3 sentry though, it's impossible for engies to destroy them without pistol-sniping or edging) and the identikit.
The identity thief is a nice idea, but I think it would have to hide the kill message from enemies as well. They could still hear the screams if they were close enough, but it seems a bit underbalanced if the enemy team sees the kill and then sees a sniper that just died.

Great ideas, I love them. Very creative.
A couple of my own ideas:
A laser tripwire that would inform you of anyone who passed it. Maybe a demoman-engie combo could be established.

A tracking device that replaces the pistol. You could throw it onto either enemies or friendly players and you would have a tracking dot (like the medic arrows) that would tell you where they are until they die. Might be useful for marking spies.

Customizable sentries? You could pick up dropped weapons and attach them to your sentry to add that component to it, and replace whatever weapon was previously attached. Once a weapon is attached, the sentry no longer has the original sentry weapons. One primary (or two secondary) weapon on a level two sentry, two primary weps (or 3 secondary) on a level 3. I think a flamethrower turret lurking near a health spawn would be an interesting idea.

A boomerang that could stun the target for the sniper, replacing the SMG. Stunning spies so you can whack them=fun

A tranquilizer dart? Could have the same drunk-focus effect as the demoman's liquor.

Different chemicals to fill the syringe gun with? Maybe a poison, depressant, or a healing potion/stimulant (for allies)
Maybe even a potion that random changes an enemy player to another class for a short time. Could be interesing.

The heavy could pick up friendly sentries/dispensers and lay them somewhere else?

Just a few ideas. I like your comical painting of each idea. Made this much more enjoyable.

Afronanny: Maybe a replacement for the butterfly knife: A poison that slowly kills you if injected from behind, even if you find healing. The health loss would be at about negative one half of the medic's healing rate. (it kills you half as fast as the medigun heals you) You would still receive notice you were hit, but then the spy could inject everyone on the enemy team and slink away to wait for kills. (or assists, more likely)
However, you could not inject from the front, and the effect would wear off after a minute, maybe?

Jason L: Hmm, I like the Spider-tracer.

eihcraft: I think the main idea behind the 'Silenced pistol' idea is that if you shoot someone, the enemies nearby wouldn't know of it, and if you missed, the enemy would not know, and you could go back to aiming. Also, perhaps the secondary fire would aim down sight, but fire slower. I'm constantly working up a shot from medium range and some jerk desides to bounce me, even on my own team, and then when I fire, I miss and the angry engy turns and pistols me to death. Also, on that note, I think the engy's next pistol should be speed capped. Or even the current one.

Andrew: I got some ideas of my own:
Spy-
Friendly Fire-Replaces Invis Watch
This watch only works for 10 seconds but while equipped (whether it's on or off) you can't be lit on fire!
-15% recharge rate

Life Leaker-Replaces Invis Watch
Works for roughly 25 seconds. While cloaked and disguised the person you are disguised as takes all the damage you do. When cloaked and not disguised all damage taken will be critical hits on you.

Just an idea- I think the sapper should have ammo, 25 ammo, it'd be more fair.....

Demo-man-
Loch Ness Bombster- Replaces Grenade Launcher
+10% damage
4 ammo 3 rounds
-15% firing speed
Explodes on contact w/ world or player

Edin-Boom- Replaces Sticky Bomb Gun
-10% Damage
+10% explosion speed
+10% creation speed
10 ammo 3 rounds- therefore you can have 10 stickies at once!

Engineer-
Power Drill- Replaces Wrench
+10% damage
300 metal
Takes time to start, sort of like natashca

Dart Gun- Replaces Pistol
+10% damage
5 ammo 5 rounds
-15% firing speed
Critical hit if enemy is holding their melee weapon

Soldier-
Grave-digger- Replaces Shovel
-10% Damage
-10 Critical hit chance
By right clicking you can dig “hole traps” (appears as a red/blue circle that can only be seen by your teammates) that will uncloak and/or un-disguise spies and do 10 damage. You can only make 2 traps at once and they take a while to make, like engi-buildings only you can’t walk away from the trap while it’s still being made

R.P.G- REALLY POWERFUL GUN- Replaces Rocket Launcher
+10% damage
+10% critical hit chance
+10% rocket speed
+10% Rocket jump Height
ammo: 1 ammo 6 rounds
Does no damage to level 2+ engi-buildings
-10% player speed

War Were Declared, by Tom Francis: [...] hours of this competition, and currently the Soldier’s in the lead. I was trying to remember what I hoped the Demoman and Soldier unlockables might be, a year and a half ago, so I dug it out of the [...]

The War Update: the end is near! : Team Fortress 2 (TF2) på Onlinegamer.se: [...] – blir starkare ju närmare döden du är. Pikhackan är ett bidrag från Steam-forumiterna Tom Francis och jibberish.Som tack för deras förslag kommer de få varsin specialversion av vapnet. Ska vi [...]

echelon: Congrats on getting the item credit for The Equalizer!
Make sure you let us know the details of your custom item.

Thoughts: I like your idea of a hacking sapper etc. If you have seen the meet the spy trailer he throws a sapper into a bunch of engi gear and disarms it all so why not a sapper or something like that? Just roll it in to disable gear but it dos no damage as it isn't attached to a building but say producing a emp. For the heavy why not have a gun that fires slowly (rocket/syringe speed), has low ammo (25 shots) but fires massive rounds that deal large amounts of damage (110+) and lowers his already slow movement speed due to the sive of the heavy weapon. Miniguns arn't the only heavy weapons out there. And pyros should have a differant kind of primary, maybe one that fires an oil slick that makes movement slower or makes players slide and on direct hits on players (assuming its lke a launcher that fires blobs that burst into puddles) the player covered sustains gaurennteed mini-crits plus a 30% reduction in movement speed. Just some ideas I thought of in 10 mins.

Team Fortress 2 - End of War by cheesey | Sleeping Death Weblog: [...] wirklich, da es 2 Benutzer im Forum gab, die ebenfalls auf die Idee dieser Waffe gekommen sind: Tom Francis und [...]

Ludo: Oh wow, a mention on TF2 blog for the Pickaxe! And your very own Equalizer, Tom! Fantastic!

Ludo: Dante and I have christened it the Pentadaxe.

It’s Close: 5,727,928 Soldiers, 5,742,720 Demos » Team Fortress 2 » TF2.net.pl: [...] wersj? tej broni. Obydwaj zaproponowali bro? dzia?aj?c? jak The Equalizer – Tom Francis w maju 2008, a jibberish w lipsu [...]

Zev: I think that giving the engineer a backpack dispenser instead of the ground mounted unit might be an interesting idea
just have it only give him metal
and it would be sap-able but he wouldn't be able to remove it on his own and he'd either have to get another engineer to whack off the sapper or go to resupply

Sonbot: Engineer SHield Wall
Pro:
Cannot build a sentry. Projects a shield that is two engineers tall and wide. Block incoming fire. Good for advancing against spammers. Quick Set up. A dispenser can directly full the energy of the shield like battery

Cons:

Cannot build a sentry. Flame pierces shield and drains it energy quickly. Sapping will disappate shield temporarly until removed. Dispenser cannot repair main hub, and will explode when the shield hub is destroyed due to feedback

Max: Many of these are good ideas but there's no downside... theoretically they should be more/less equal to what they replace but a different style.
Nonetheless, I love most of the ideas as a starting point (read: needs tweaking for balance but is great)

Wolf: Sniper should have a replacement for SMG, I can't remember the name, but you know those things that are like 3 rocks in a sling and they are swung around and they basically wrap around the feet of the target.
They would reduce movement speed greatly for a short time, or if they are meleed by a teammate. Would have a similair trajectory as the Scout's ball. Maybe he should have "THIS is a knife" taunt, with the anti-spy knife X3 can just imagine if he uses the taunt after killing a spy, then he has a spy knife and his knife, "You call that a knife? THIS is a knife!"
or maybe on the same idea, he has a big spoon (Knifey spoony) maybe some tucker to increase HP and then after he eats the spoon is a weapon (like scout sandman, after he hits ball then its a melee weapon)

Longshot: Good imagination! although some things were a little lame, this was very interesting and im glad you took the time to post your ideas

wierdo124: I love the sentry hack, and i LOVE love the Laser Pointer. Laser pointer NEEDs to be implimented.

Shinkada: Some of these ideas are, in my honest opinion, vastly superior to the actual weapons that ended up being implemented by Valve. Pyro's napalm, for instance, is a much cooler idea than the boring, annoying and role-questioning Flare Gun.

Burst of flame -> a napalm shot or two -> axtinguisher. Ouch.

Spy's hacker-pistol is just gold. Though I honestly think it should be a complete takeover of the sentry. A Lv3 sentry is capable of holding down entire teams if they're not organized, so I don't see why the ability to take one over would be overpowered, especially since it requires a full 10 seconds of nobody noticing you. Not to mention a Lv3 sentry is surprisingly fragile when it doesn't have a wrench slapping against it every second. It would put the enemy team into a panic, and momentarily cause a massive distraction while they take out the hacked sentry... The exact kind of thing a Spy is meant to do.

wtb Crit Me postits, seriously. Way better idea than Bonk.

Team Fortress 2 Updates In Perspective, by Tom Francis: [...] properly different roles. Also, the Axtinguisher is the second best idea Valve ever stole from me (and somehow implimented in 19 [...]

Sage3995 » Blog Archive » Team Fortress 2 - WAR Update Weapons Review: [...] new weapon, somebody on the forums claims they thought of it first. But this time, assuming it’s Tom Francis and jibberish, they are absolutely correct. As a special thanks to them for doing our work for us, [...]

Ziying a.k.a "comicreader13": There are some really good ideas in here, quite a few that I don't mind playing the game with.
I especially liked the Laser Pointer, Croc, and the Hack-O-Tron 3000.
After all, what is best about TF2 is simply the chaos, so much things happening at the same time, the soldier yelling "Attack!", the engine crying "I need some doggone help!", the range of projectiles in the air and whizzing past your ear.

Though the man-sappers seems to be more like annoying kid's practical joke tool than a professional spy's gadget. :D

One idea I thought up myself, for the engineer, to come with the package of the Laser Pointer or some other unlockable, is to let him have information about all friendly building in the game, their health, their whereabout, presence of sappers, everything. Because one of the most annoying thing for me is to work on a sentry in a rather dangerous place and keep having it destroyed by enemies because you simply do not have the time to completely upgrade both the dispenser and sentry in time. And the exact same time when you are rushing to finish everything, the other engineers on your team are dying of boredom, shooting bullets at invisible spies. In this way, some of the defensive engineers can dedicate to the offensive ones their ability simply to be able to carry metal and hack wrenches. When defensive engineers camping at the base sees information about a new sentry appear on their information screen, they can go out of the intel room and offer help and this certainly beats for the offensive engineer to scream into the chat box for people to come and help and only to keep having everything destroyed again and again because the other engineers simply didn't see his words or not feeling motivated as they don't know where the lvl 1 sentry is.
I hope you can give me your opinion on this idea. :D

Scott Weaver: Excellent ideas. I loved all of them. :)

The art, by the way, is magnificent. My favorite part, perhaps. In exacting tf2 style!

Scott Weaver: ... Except for the Man-Sapper. I actually think that one is a good tool for griefing and is overpowered.

But beyond that, a great read. :)

Dae: Just so you know, you're a bit wrong about the Heavy's minigun. That large white cylinder is not a motor, as you think, but the ammo drum.

http://farm3.static.... ...de15a3.jpg <-you list it as motor in regards to this picture, however,

http://www.clubhyper... ...au8a_a.jpg <- it is actually the ammunition canister.

The miniguns that Valve designed the heavy's minigun off of are the large vulcan cannons used for aircraft, or as CIWS point-defense turrets for shooting down missles,

They are typically

http://www.colosseum... ...nj-073.jpg <- mechanized, as the sheer weight of the amount of rounds requires help to move more than a minigun, or any other single gun, can provide.


http://www.colosseum... ...nj-066.jpg <- the point-defense turret of which I speak. They are completely automated, and used to shoot down incoming missiles. CIWS, look it up, the things are awesome(as a small note for videos where it is night, they shoot a tracer round every five rounds).

Email me at Daedalus969 (at) gmail (dot) com for any other info.

....: maybe the slienced pistol will remove any damage signs or sounds

LaZodiac: Yes. Thats a GOOD idea, person who's names are just elipses.

Hash Man Classic: Crab Wrench (replaces Monkey Wrench)
The Engineer's dream wrench would have +50% Attack Speed, -50% Damage, 100% Mini-Crits on Spies. Why single out a single profession on a new weapon? Because spies suck! Er, well they sap at least... and you usually have to whack at your buildings at the same time you encounter the spy. To give this wrench an added bonus, one hit with this wrench will disable a sapper. Let me clarify, one hit with the wrench will prevent the sapper from draining the life from your buildings but a second hit is still needed to remove the sapper, like the normal wrench. As a little joke, instead of using a Monkey Wrench, the new wrench is called the Crab Wrench (different animal name, plus the wrench has it out for Spies (particularly Crab Spies) so the wrench itself resembles a crab's claw).

The Sheriff's Six-Shooters (replaces shotgun)
Everyone knows the Engineer is from Texas, except maybe the Soldier who keeps calling him Canadian. But being the Wild West frontiersman mercenary that he is, the engineer trades his traditional shotgun for a set of sexy silver and gold six shooters complete with a gleaming sheriff's star he wears over his heart. Each pistol deals maybe about the Spy's Ambassador in damage with an ammo reserve of 48. In addition to this, if the Engineer aims at his opponent's heart he'll earn himself a critical hit (and a special kill icon). The engineer gains a special sight: while equipped the Engineer sees an outline of a star or heart on everyone's chest where he can aim to critical hit, but he can only get it if it's the first shot since reloading (i.e. think of high noon show downs; you have to be accurate with your first shot, not go shooting wildly like Yosemite Sam...although Sam's shooting style could easily be a more appropriate for the engineer, when there are multiple hostiles bearing down on him and there isn't time to aim. Come to think of it, the engineer would become a lot more like Yosemite Sam with these guns. Yehaw!

The Fort Master (replaces shotgun)
This is a portable cannon that fires shrapnel filled cannonballs that detonates on impact sending metal shards several meters in all directions. The cannon only has 9 shots with 3 cannonballs per clip and has a slow reload time. But the cannon has another feature: by pressing alt fire and spending 75 metal the engineer can set the gun on the ground like you would the Gunbuddy and it acts like another sentry gun.
It takes 8 seconds to build to level 1, but can still fire its cannon automatically at nearby enemies during this time. At level 0 the FMSG (Fort Master Sentry Gun) has 100 hp, at level 1 it has 165 hp and at level 2 it has 180 hp (like a normal level 2 sentry) and cannot be upgraded further. At level 1 the FMSG is basically the cannon mounted on top of a level 1 sentry, at level two it is a level two sentry gun and cannot be upgraded further. When the Fort Master is at level 2 you can remove it from the sentry gun it has built by pressing alt fire with your wrench when you're standing next to it. With the Fort Master back in hand you can continue building these sentry guns at your leisure. (It takes 200 metal to upgrade a FMSG from level 0 to 1 and 200 more for 1 to 2).
This weapon allows for one or two engineers to slowly build up a forward base with level 2 sentries or defend a strategic location with multiple cheap sentry guns. Because one or two engineers can hold down the fort by themselves it frees up other players to play a different class more beneficial to the map at hand (who else is tired of 7 engineers on a 14 player team just to guard the intel? anyone?)

The Gunbuddy (replaces pistol)
the Gunbuddy is an ingenious little tool the engineer invented when he asked himself the hard question: "Why the hell do I have 200 spare ammo for my 9mm pistol?" he knew he was wasting all that ammo he never used in battle and decided to find a way to put it to good use. He took two standard 9mm pistols and strapped them to the ammo drum of an old level 1 sentry, put a camera sensor and automated firing computer on the little gizmo and cracked his knuckles with a satisfied smile. Finished.
Able to carry it around with both hands, it will automatically fire at any opponent in your field of vision when holding it (you can fire it manually too if there isn't an enemy to fire at; but carrying the gun buddy slows you down by 25% and the Gunbuddy is much more inaccurate when holding it too). Pressing alt fire will set it down on the ground where it can fire in 360? like a sentry gun with the firepower of two 9mm pistols simultaneously but with around 75% of the health of a level 1 sentry. The Gunbuddy cannot be upgraded and only holds 224 rounds but can be repaired with your wrench as normal; with your wrench equipped you can stand next to your Gunbuddy and alt fire to pick it back up (automatically restoring it if you have the metal to spare).
This lets an engineer deploy a mini-sentry at instant speed, if nothing else it allows the engineer to begin building "real" structures while still receiving some cover fire (how many times have you and your stuff been overwhelmed by an enemy while trying to set up buildings? Then the rest of your team complains how the engi hasn't set up a teleporter. Grrr.) the Gunbuddy sacrifices your secondary offensive weapon for a defensive device that makes the opponent think twice before rushing in and taking out all your buildings.

Dispenser Belt (replaces pistol)
The dispenser belt is a continuous source of metal and health, but at a very slow rate. You receive 25 metal every six seconds and 6 health a second (essentially you have the regeneration rate of a Medic and get 25 metal...the amount you get from the first generation of metal from a level 1 dispenser. Not only that, but the belt also lets you carry 50 more metal at the cost of being a bit more vulnerable: because a dispenser contains all sorts of combustibles and explosives like the Pyro's fuel or the Demoman's grenades any normal damage (meaning excluding crits and mini-crits) taken by an engineer wearing this is increased by 15% On the bright side, carrying all that extra metal on him gives the engineer a sort of body armor granting him 35% Bullet resistance and +30% Blast resistance (these bonuses do not stack with the engineer's mech while operating the suit). The Engineer's teammates benefit from the engineer's belt too, by standing close to the engineer they will receive ammunition very quickly (30% per second) and heal at 6 health a second. Other engineers can borrow your metal if they stand close to you, splitting no less than 12 off of each generation of metal and they don't even have to ask you politely for it! Don't get mad though, remember this is TEAM FORTESS, with the emphasis on team; you might be the only engi on your team with a Dispenser Belt, but your other engineers are using their own toys to lead your team to victory.
Also, when a belt wearing engineer dies he drops a level 1 ammo box and level 1 health kit.

Industrial Laser Targeting Pistol (replaces pistol)
This is a high tech little gizmo that the engineer just can't pass up. The ILTP fires an infrared beam that fires your sentry guns in range at that location. If you don't have a sentry gun within range the beam instead paints the target, alerting nearby allies of your target and allowing them to hit them for mini-crits (they'll do a mini-crit so long as the laser is on the target). But if you're all alone, and no one's around to help you, the pistol can also be used as your self defense. By alt firing you emit a high powered laser beam at your target for good damage close to medium range, but the energy quickly dissipates at long distances and you can only fire one of these lasers every 4 seconds, with a maximum charge at 2 seconds more (the 4 second shot deals proportionally less damage). The laser pistol has unlimited ammo, it just has to charge between each shot. The ILTP manual targeting feature does not work with certain sentry guns.

The Long Guns (replaces Sentry Gun) costs 130
The long sentry gun is just like the original sentry gun except that has a 33% longer targeting range and 25% faster targeting acquisition (amount of time before spotting an enemy and firing) but can only turn 280?, never behind. The Long Guns have +25% base health from normal sentry guns at each level. The Long Guns are drained by sappers 20% faster.

The Armored Dispenser (replaces dispenser) costs 125
The Armored Dispenser has increased health and houses the head of a level 1 sentry on top of it that has 50% of the range of a level 1 sentry gun (the gun uses the metal it generates as its ammo, so if your dispenser is killing a lot of people don't expect a lot of metal to be left over for you to use).
The Armored Dispenser builds itself in 15 seconds and can be upgraded once for increased durability. At level 1 it has 180 health and gains 25 more at level 2 which costs 125 metal. It generates 40 metal every 5 seconds, heals 18 health per second and replenishes ammo at 25% per second. At level 2, the dispenser will overheal teammates by 15%. The healing range of this dispenser is 25% larger than the normal dispenser.

The Team Deployment Cannon (replaces teleporter) costs 135
While the teleporter transports teammates to a specific spot of your choosing the TDC allows each rider to choose his or her own destination!
The TDC has 3 upgrade levels to reduce the charge time between launches (8, 4, 2 seconds respectively) and increases the maximum launching distance by a percentage at the cost of 200 metal per level. The TDC operates by climbing into the cannon breech-first, once inside the teammate goes to an overhead view of the map within the cannons' range and selects where he or she wants to exit by clicking and the cannon launches them. To offset potential fall damage, the TDC has a miniature health generator inside the cannon that overheals the traveler to 125% of their maximum health.
Why use this instead of a teleporter? Actually a better question is why use this when you have the teleporter. If a spy saps a teleporter, the engineer can fix one end by hitting the opposite with his wrench; but if a spy saps the cannon, the engineer is likely far away and it will likely succumb. However, the cannon lets each teammate choose where they want to deploy at, which lets the ground forces engage the enemy on their own terms. The teleporter has an unlimited range, transporting people no matter how far away the entrance and exit are from each other. However, the TDC has a limited range it can launcher people to; depending on the map, the cannon can get you close to the action, but you may have to walk around a bit to find the rest of your team.
I think this is an excellent side-grade to the teleporter.

The Mech Suit (replaces all buildings)
Nearly everyone I've talked to has been down with the idea of engineer getting a mech suit in the engineer update. I share the notion, but I know such a device will need to be heavily balanced (I do not want to see teams of Mech Engies running around). This is a rough idea of how my engineer Mech Suit would work....
Press 5 when standing next to the Mech to get in and out of the suit. Friendly engineers can repair a Mech Suit with their wrench even if there is someone inside; to repair your own Mech Suit you must exit it first (which leaves you pretty vulnerable). While in the suit, the wearer covers almost twice as much ground per stride. The suit cannot be sapped while there is an operator inside (it can still be disabled with the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat's ability).
When no one is operating the suit it shrinks in size and becomes an automated sentry gun with firepower equal to a level 2 sentry gun (the transformation from Mech Suit into Mech Suit Sentry Gun and vice versa take around 2.5 seconds). The MSSG has treads that allow it to follow its engineer around (since the Mech Suit obviously cannot fit through some doorways) at around the walking speed of a Heavy. The Mech Suit and the MSSG have 250 hp and +50% bullet resistance, +50% blast resistance and +25% fire resistance. If the Mech Suit dies while an engineer is operating it, the engineer dies too (be sure to jump out of your Mech if you feel it's about to die, chances are you'll be able to kill at least a few more people on your own and if you make it back to your spawn room, you get your Mech Suit back!)
While inside the Mech Suit the user loses his normal weapons and instead uses the Suit's weapon systems. The Mech's primary weapon is its twin rail guns that fire simultaneously with the same damage as Sasha (the Heavy's standard minigun) but a slightly smaller cone of fire; pressing alt fire sends a rocket at your target; you hold 200 rounds and 8 rockets maximum at any given time. The Mech's secondary weapon are its electromagnetic crane arms that allow you to pick up and move friendly buildings (obviously with the other engineer's consent), the secondary fire disables your Mech for 5 seconds (ejecting you from the suit in the process) and sends a chain of lightning through nearby enemies that deal minor damage and stuns them for up to 3 seconds (this lets you mop up close by enemies manually and give you a chance to hit the Mech with your wrench to repair it). The third weapon the Mech grants is it's melee capacity: the Mech uses sharp blades on its arms as weapons of last resort; the attacks deal 80-100 damage but are very slow (if you find yourself needing to use the Mech's melee attacks to defend yourself, you may be better off simply getting out of your suit and attacking with your normal weapons) the alternate attack with the Mech's melee weapon permanently transforms the suit into a miniature forward base (at the cost of 200 metal) that includes one level 2 sentry gun and one level 2 dispenser that can be upgraded as normal (note that when you respawn, if you have the Mech Suit, these buildings will self destruct). (This last ability allows a Mech Engie to go rolling around in his suit killing people and then set up a defensive position where other engineers can build their buildings and you can help them! Talk about team work!) (By alt firing with the Mech's melee weapon you are ejected from your Mech as it begins to transform into a scaffold that contains the dispenser and sentry gun, if you are interrupted by an enemy during this time don't worry. The scaffold will stay until you die or when you finish off your enemy you can press 4 (your Build PDA) to set you sentry gun and dispenser to where you want. Once both buildings are placed the scaffolding of the ex-Mech Suit will self destruct and players can collect the pieces for ammo/ metal.)
Wow! You might think this Mech Suit is over powered what with all the damage reduction and fancy gizmos and firepower. But I haven't gotten to the best part; the great equalizer of the mighty engineer Mech is none other than the Sniper (and to a lesser extent, Ambassador Spies)! Dun dun dun! Thats right, the Mech Suit, despite its powerful visage is still operated by a 125 hp engineer who sit behind a pane of window glass. This is the Mech Engie's Achilles' heel since a well placed critical headshot will deal full damage and likely kill the occupant (Huray! Snipers actually become useful if engineers get mechs; a buff for both classes!).

Hash Man Classic: Those were some of my ideas for Engineer. Here are some for Spy. Please, let me know what you think.

Fancy Reinforced Electrostatic Non-Combustible Hitman's Coat (aka the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat)
a special, reinforced coat modeled after vintage Trench Coats that REPLACES YOUR ELECTROSAPPER. Instead of trying to sneak around enemy lines and attacking from behind (which is often impossible on certain maps where your team is all choked up), you can go straight to your opponents forward base and pretend to be a wounded enemy and heal at the engineer's dispenser (which has a beneficial effect with the coat). Since this coat's electric ability drains more of you reserve energy to operate, your cloak time is reduced by 20% and its regeneration rate reduced by 10% (the extra heavy trench coat is laden with special armor and electrostatic plates; the invisibility power of the spy takes a little more energy to fully conceal himself)
• +35% Bullet Resistance
• +30% Flame Resistance
• +20% Blast Resistance?
• Afterburning Ends 50% Faster
• When disguised and standing next to an active enemy dispenser you slowly gain a charge after 5 seconds. Long enough so that either a) the engineer isn't around to spy check you and you, as a spy, deserve the right to attempt to sap his stuff or b) the engineer is around, but isn't spy checking you (and since this item replaces your Electrosapper this allows you to still maintain building destructiveness)) that emits a sustained 10m aura of static electricity that disables and drains all engineer buildings within its bubble. This lasts 5 seconds and unless the spy is killed where upon the effect immediately ends, all affected buildings fall to pieces; however, during this time the spy's cloak and disguise are disabled as well (and dead ringer won't activate) but his first shot with either his revolver or knife will be super-electrically charged (deals an automatic critical hit) complete with a unique visual effect, but electric buff dissipates after your first attack, so be sure to aim properly! (the critical-buff occurs in the 5 second window when the coat's aura activates; also during these 5 seconds, the spy moves 33% slower.)
• -20% Cloak Time
• -10% Cloak Regeneration
• You do not reveal your team color when bumped into while cloaked or when burning-while-disguised.

explanation of abilities: The standard issue Electrosapper allows a spy to wait out of the engineer's view and strike at the most opportune time; an ability that has proven useful time and time again. But in my time as playing spy I've noticed something: it gets harder and harder everyday to be a spy in tf2. What with all the constant spy checking and often near skill-less pyros who's flamethrowers' are extremely powerful in close range (where spies must operate) not to mention the afterburn effect has damned far too many to an early grave (I wish I could count the number of times my charred body has fallen just a step short of, or even upon a medkit) coupled with the fact the spy only has 125 health to work with, it's almost a wonder there are still dedicated spies.
By replacing the Electrosapper with the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat the spy gets to move amongst the enemy team a little easier with minor damage reduction to fire and bullets (bullets = shotgun, smg, pistol, minigun, etc) and the special fabric of the coat reduces the afterburning time from 10 seconds down to 5 seconds and prevents your team's color to show when you bump into someone while cloaked or if an enemy pyro catches you on fire while you're disguised (however, if you catch on fire while cloaked your team color will show). This one item changes how the spy acts in a unique way, it is designed for spies that focus more on assassinating key players rather than destructiveness versus engineers. But to lose all ones advantage over the engineer (probably the most effective class to hold down a strategic location in the game) while only gaining a minor boon versus pyros (the bane of spies everywhere) seemed ludicrous, so I gave the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat a minor sapping ability that has a very specific circumstance to activate, so as to balance the item. The way I see it, the Electrosapper is for the sneaky spy; the one that waits in a shadowed corner, watching the engineer busily work until he decides the moment is right. But the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat wearing spy is busy avoiding spy checks, weaving in and out of the front lines assassinating prime targets: sneak behind the medic to backstab and finish off the pyro he was healing with the pistol then cloaking just in time to slip behind the next pair of enemies and attempt to repeat the process. The resistances the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat offers help tremendously with this aspect of the spy's play style. But even with damage reduction, the Coat-wearing spy is bound to become injured; so why not steal health from your old friend engineer's dispenser he put up near the front lines to supply his team? Just disguise as an enemy (when wearing the coat, you always disguise as someone with <100% health) and sit next to the dispenser; your Coat will gain a charge after 5 seconds of healing from a dispenser that must discharge itself immediately (i.e. it's an "Automatic Ability" since the spy has no control of when/where the Elecromagnetic Aura activates).
The Electromagnetic Aura ability of the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat takes 5 seconds to charge at an enemy dispenser, activates immediately after it's charged and lasts 5 seconds, disabling all enemy engineer buildings in a 10m range in all directions. During these 5 seconds the spy cannot cloak or disguise himself; but his pistol and knife become electrically supercharged allowing for the spy to make a single devastating attack with either that deals a 100% critical hit (killing a person with this electric attack results in a unique kill icon) Killing the spy during the 5 seconds will disable the aura and restore all affected buildings to working order except for the dispenser that charged the Coat which is always destroyed unless an engineer hits it with a wrench (and the other buildings will still need to be repaired as normal since the Electromagnetic Aura still drains buildings' health).
I've been playing this game a long while now and I personally think the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat would be a perfect side-grade for the spy class: sacrificing his standard sapping ability for a minor increase in survivability and only a conditional (although potentially powerful) sapping ability. The original sapper is still usable by spies to rush into an unguarded engineer area and quickly take out the buildings; or by spies that like to wait till the engineer is distracted enough to execute a proper sap+stab maneuver. (the F.R.E.N.C.H. Coat's Electromagnetic Aura also affects the gear of all spies in range including yourself, disabling cloaks and disguises, and leaving the spy vulnerable to being killed which results in only the destruction of said dispenser unless an engineer whacks it with his wrench). And need I remind you the Spy's base health is only 125 which, when you come to think about it, is a very, very low amount for a class that gets up close and personal with enemies that are constantly spy checking.

The Butterfly Knife (i.e. the Spy's Standard melee weapon)
basically I would update this basic Spy weapon so that it would have a chance to randomly mini-crit (with Valve having already nerfed this weapon's backstab radius and inability to land random critical hits, this knife's effectiveness plummeted significantly). Sure, the spy can instantly kill anyone with a backstab, but it's getting harder and harder to do nowadays; I can understand no random critical hits, the spy's knife would be too powerful if it were, but surely Valve could change it so the knife would deal mini-crits instead of critical hit so the Spy could at least sometimes deal more than base damage to an opponent who's foiled your backstab attempt (and let you deal a pinch more damage before you pull out your revolver and retreat).
The knife would also attack 33% faster than it does now (it's a freaking butterfly knife! I knew a guy who practiced with one of these with his ex-police officer father (who was a total gun-nut too, by the way) and was really good with it. It's really a light weapon that can attack quickly in trained hands (which I assume tf2's Spy has trained extensively with this knife too).
in addition to this update to the spy's signature knife, the spy would get +25 health bringing it up from 125 and letting the spy take a pinch more damage before succumbing to death. I wouldn't even mind a (very slight) further reduction in this weapon's backstab radius if the spy's health was brought up. (This would make the 150 hp spy a bit more combative and allows creative room for new knives to be introduced, perhaps with a -25 hp drawback to bring the health back to normal).

The Sneak Attack
this Switchblade replaces the spy's butterfly knife and has a 165? (or much larger than original Butterfly Knife) backstab radius from behind but cannot deal random crits / mini-crits and attacks at the same speed the old butterfly knife (aka 33% slower). -25 hp on wearer (brings spy down to 125 again).
The Sneak Attack will do more damage in an unsuccessful backstab attempt based proportionally to the length of time it's been since the spy decloaked (I don't know how to write the damage formula, but it would be similar to the Equilizer's; replace "health" with "time since decloaking" and something like 3x for 1 second, 2x for 2 seconds, 1.5x for 3 seconds?).
Also, the spy gets a conditional speed boost with this weapon: If you've been following a target for (3-5) seconds (you'll receive and indicator when you've been following a target long enough) after you're decloaked you can press and hold down primary fire with The Sneak Attack equipped to run straight forward at around 115% of a Medic's speed and if the attack hits their back it counts as a backstab, otherwise it's a mini-crit. The sprint only lasts like 3 seconds and your disguise ends as soon as you begin charging forward. At the start of your sprint the spy will quietly yell something that will alert people nearby that there's a spy running up behind them, but of course if the target is distracted or otherwise engaged they will likely receive a backstab.
The reason behind this weapon? Sometimes the spy decloaks in just the right place to fall in behind the enemy without them noticing (or caring) but you just don't run fast enough to catch up to him and backstab and you typically end up being spy checked by a scout or someone else that's come up behind you. This weapon caters to the spy that likes to wait in an unseen corner and slip behind his target as quickly as possible after he decloaks to assassinate them and then hurry back to a hiding spot. Compared to the updated Butterfly Knife, the Sneak Attack wielding spy has -25 health and 33% slower attack speed but increased room to fit a backstab in and the ability to run faster, even if that ability is conditional and limited.

The Rogue's Rapier
this is a very special sword made by the Spy's Guild in their HQ in France. A spy disguised as a friendly or enemy Demoman will appear to be wielding a Chargin' Targe and an Eyelander and attacking with it will not remove his disguise (he will look like a Demoman swinging a sword). The sword's reach and damage is about the same as the Eyelander too. However, wielding a sword instead of a knife prevents the spy from ever performing a backstab, but he is able to deal random critical hits.

The Poison Needle (could use different name; you've seen this idea before, I'm sure)
This is another side-grade for the Butterfly Knife and like the Sneak Attack it reduces the spy's max health by 25. The needle contains a toxic liquid that the spy can inject into his enemies (does not have to be from behind, in fact, the needle cannot backstab; but while a target is poisoned your pistol will 100% mini-crit on them).
The thing with the Needle is that it doesn't kill your targets right away like a backstab does. Instead, the victim of a Needle prick will notice a minor screen shake when stricken, (accompanied by the character releasing a small sigh/groan?) then nothing happens for 5 seconds (the idea is to let the victim an opportunity to either retaliate or retreat to get a med kit/find a medic to heal them) but if the target doesn't realize he's been pricked by the needle after 5 seconds he will start to pant, his heart beats faster and he begins to blink every second (mildly disrupting the target's vision while simultaneously alerting them that they've been the victim of the Spy's needle).
(*gasps* blink...begins frantically looking for the spy, but he's long gone *gasps and blinks again* realizes he doesn't have much time and heads for the nearest health kit or medic to heal him of the poison *gasps and blinks a final time* he trips and falls just a few feet away from salvation, the camera zooms to the cloaked spy that's been watching him from the corner of the room, smiling devilishly).
Attacking someone with the Poison Needle will not remove your disguise; however, anyone watching you will be able to see you holding the needing whenever you attack with it (just like placing sappers doesn't remove your disguise, but it still looks like the character is putting something on those buildings....in a sense, the Needle is like an electrosapper for characters killing them after a few seconds unless medical intervention takes place). Be sure to keep your pistol ready because the needle doesn't deal any damage.

Oh, and my idea for a medigun since Medic is my second most played class.

First, I would update the Medic so that he starts with 200 hp instead of 150 (since I think 150 hp is far too little for the Medic to survive in this day and age where there are tons of grenades and rockets flying around. Besides, I think the name "Medic" should imply that this class knows a thing or two about health & wellness that it should reflect in the amount of life he has to play around with).

Lifeburster (replaces medigun)
this medigun loses its ability to Ubercharge / Kritz, but also heals your target +25% faster (note this does not charge 25% faster like the Kritzkreig, it heals your target slightly faster than the other mediguns. For every 25% that would go towards your Ubercharge gives the Lifeburster a *healing pulse*. Up to 4 healing pulses can be stored in the Lifeburster at any given time. By alt firing with the Lifeburster the medic emits a healing pulse that extinguishes adjacent allies and heals allies (including the medic) within a range 75% of that of the medigun's healing beam for ~41 health.

....as always, the numbers / percentages of these items can be modified for game balance. Peace.

Pilt: It seems a little optimistic to believe that giving each engineer three sentries will result in fewer people playing the class.

Hash Man Classic: @ Pitt: Oh, I agree; most certainly after the update a lot of people will be playing Engineer. I know I probably will, but this ALWAYS happens after an update, right? The thing is Engineer is a defensive class, there will always be a need for the other classes (especially DH Soldiers and Demomen as they are well equipped for dealing with buildings) so the engi update will probably *not* result in team full of engineers (though you'll probably see a few more).

You seem to think that if every engineer were given, say, my afformentioned upgrades that most would loadout with a Fort Master and a Gunbuddy and a PDA to let him build his traditional SG too. Where as this might happen, it would certainly let those times live up to their names....an engineer with a FM and GB loses almost all of his personal offensiveness for the ability to set up a forward base (forward base, Fort Master? using a Gunbuddy to cover you while you build *more* sentries? beginning to see how the items' names seem to work with the type of play style the engineer would take?)

But then there is of course the Battle Engi, those people who like to stay up close and personal with the enemy while supporting the allies he travels with. The engineer's standard weapons are very vanilla, shotgun pistol melee weapon, but all three combined can get a battle engi many kills / assists without *ever* being helped by his sentry gun.
Certainly this aspect of engineer won't die out simply because of more sentry guns are at his disposal; in fact I think it would lead to interesting teamwork between Engineers with different loadouts (you'd have your Fort Master engineer find a nice, quiet spot to set up a forward teleporter, using his gunbuddy as protective fire and early warning system. But there's two other engineers on the team, one with a shotgun and Laser Targeting pistol the other with his six shooters, dispenser belt and Texas Ten Gallon. They follow behind the rest of the team's main attack force, build a quick sentry gun, a dispenser and then rejoin the fight, plugging round after round into foes currently occupied with another teammate. Then the enemy Ubercharge comes and finally pushes through the line, many teammates find themselves in the spawn room to be greeted by engineer #1's teleporter, letting them get back into the frey that must faster.)

Anonymous: for the engie:
All his buildables will be replaced by the smartsentry. This sentry is stronger, tougher, faster and smarter. First of all your max metal will go up to 400, exactly enough to build a super sentry. The smartsentry will have a bit more health and firepower than a lvl3 sentry,and cant be upgraded. But this sentry can shoot stickies, shoot people out of range if shot they shoot it, autoheal and can even recognise spies if they stick around too long! The downside is that it takes alot longer to build and has to be charged. You will see it's charge on your sentry display. 100 to 31 percent charged it will do as described above. 30 to 11 percent and it will be semi-functional, that means it will turn slower and fire at 75 percent the rate. 10 to 1 percent, it will go into sleep mode and not be operational. When at zero percent, it will be off and when it's charge goes back above 20 percent it will reboot where there is a 10 second period when it comes back on.Power consumtion: when doing nothing-1percent per sec. when auto healing-3 percent per sec. When firing-5 percent per sec. When being sapped-10 percent per sec. When in sleep mode-1 percent every TWO seconds. Charge by whacking it with your wrench. It takes 2 metal for every percent.

Anonymous: For the pyro:
Secondary weapon will be replaced with gas can. By looking down at the ground and firing, you will pour out gassoline. The gassoline will evaporate after 30 secs. You light the gassoline with your flamethrower, standing in the flames will have the same burn damage as a regular flamethrower, flames burn for 10 secs. When you have 80 to 100 percent gassoline left in the can, alt fireing will set it on the ground. Walk back over it to get it back. To get the gas can back you can also die or go to the resuply cabinet, this will erase your existing gas can. When you burn the gas can it will explode with the strength of 3 stickies, and of course will leve a burning circle 10 ft wide (final product might have shorter/ longer radius)

Anonymous: for the spy:
Electrosapper will be replaced by paint can of opposing teams color. When fired has an arched tragectory, if it hits an enemy they will look like an enemy to the enemy team and like an enemy covered in paint to you. When you are under the effects of the paint can you cannot communicate whatsoever. Your team can harm you until you untill your health reaches crictical (red), where you will exclaim that you are on their team( words different dependent on class). After 20 secs the paint will wear off automacticly.

Anonymous: for the spy:
Replacing the (beloved) butterfly knife is the poison needle. Because the tip is so fine enemies won't feel a thing, and your descise is not dropped. Here is what will happen to a person who has been struck by the needle: after 15 secs screen starts to go in random directions. after 25 seconds screen gets blurry. After 30 secs death.

Anonymous: ps: going to the resuply cabinets drops poison nedle's affects

Taisma24: I have some ideas of my own.
1. The Nail-Hitter: lv. 12 Hammer; Wrench unlock; 75% slower firing speed, removes sappers in 1 hit, 100 metal to a building in every swing.
2. The Wet One: lv. 10 Kukri; Kukri unlock; allows jarate & The Wet One to be held at the same time, 100% crits on jarated enemies, -50% damage against non- jarated enemies.
3. The Snap Shot: lv. 5 Camera; Sapper unlock; usable while cloaked, right-click to zoom & left-click to take picture, viewable by teammates.
4. The Writing Utensil: lv. 7 pencil; Knife unlock; only usable once; injects led into the target and losses 3 hp every second; respawns will not extract the led; the only way to get rid of the led is for a Medic sacrificing 25% of his Ubercharge.

Anonymous: For any Class:
Anti Riot shield: When you have it out it covers your chest from the front, and will also cover your legs if crouched,but you will be unable to move. Any bullet or fire that hits the sheild will not do any damage to you. All explosives in front of you do 30% damage

Anonymous: For the medic:
The Uber-Cannon replaces the primary weapon, it is capible of turning the masive amount of energy in an ubercharge into a high powered stream of pure energy. The Uber-Cannon drains uber 10% per sec and does 20 damage per percent. The stream of energy is only powerfull enough to go so far and will fade away at a certan distance.

Anonymous: For the Scout:
I'm Freak'n Mario! replaces the Primary weapon, also alows the scout to jump higher,so high he can take fall damage! when you jump on top of an enemy you do damage, depending on how far you jumped.

Anonymous: pps: being healed by a medic for long enough will disable poison needle's afects

Anonymous: For the engie:
The Drill delivers a constant stream of metal that could heal and upgrade buildings faster. It also delivers a constant stream of damage to enemys that in all delivers 50% less damage per second to an enemy then if you were using a wrench.

I like your idea of giving the engie a weapon that crits on spys, and this is it.

Anonymous: ps: im sorry, you said sniper, but every engie would go for a spy-critting weapon

Anonymous: For engie:
Heat seaking gogles, replaces pistol. When you have it out, you can see invisible spys. But weather you have it out or not the ability to see your buildings' status is gone.

DoctorDisaster: I have some ideas! They involve locking out anonymous spam commenters with lame ideas.

Anonymous: For engie:
killbot and controler, killbot is a little floating robot that spawns with you and has the firepower and health of a lvl 2 sentry and the healing and ammo and metal giving abilties of a lvl 2 dispenser. Your killbot controler replaces your build and destroy menu. The Controler has 3 controls that are selected with numpad first control is move when you select this your screen will change to your killbot's eyes and your desplay will be in the upper left hand corner. With move you can move your killbot with WASD and Spacebar, to get out of move mode you can; click, get hurt, or have your killbot die or be sapped. The second Option is follow, when you are near enough and select it your killbot will follow you, it goes slowly, and if you go too far it will stop and gaurd, you can also get out of follow mode by going back to control menu and pressing 2 wich is now gaurd. 3 is self destruct, where your killbot will explode and die, he will also explode if he is killed. Your Building status will now show your killbot's status and screen veiw.

Anonymous: If you get mech suit i think you should have a kick out button incase some noob takes it and drives where you dont want to go, and what if he jumps into pit?

Sorry: yea i accedentaly stole poison nedle idea

Anonymous: For Demmo man:
Frag Grnade, replaces grande launcher, your clip is decresed to 1, the grnade takes 5 secs to explode and will not explode on direct hits, but instead do 10 damage and make the grnade do mini crits to them. The grnade has small and weak splash damage, but sends 30 peices of shrapnel in random directions that do 20 damage at short range, and due to the laws of acceleration they do 30 damage at medioum range, but do 5 damage at long range. Once the shrapnel has hit a hard surface, they stop and are worth 10 metal to engies.

Achevement:
From far away: kill a person with at long range with a peice of shrapnel

Anonymous: Ps: yes, I spelled GRENADE wrong

Dan: That's the worst idea I've ever heard.

Anonymous: Why?

Verde Flash: SO MANY REASONS.

Go play some Team Fortress Classic and find out for yourself.

Anonymous: ok so pain can im freakn mario and gascan suck and ubercannon is overpowering, and i stole the idea for poison needle but what are your ideas on shrapnel grenade, anti riot sheild and engie ideas

maybie gas can replaced with molitov and when team kills teammate with paint, the kill counts as the spy's

Anonymous: hey Hash man, maybie life burster full uber could bring a corpse back to life, a full corpse not giblets or an eyelander victim (guess it would be kinda useless on an isnstant respawn server)

Anonymous: gp8p

Verde Flash: Fetch me my dictionary.

Bret: English dictionary?

Doesn't sound ideal for the situation.

Hash Man Classic: Oh, I've got a revised Wrench, instead of the aforementioned Crab-Wrench.
So what do Engineers do the majority of their time? Bashing away at their buildings with a wrench. Coincidentally that's the name of this Wrench sidegrade the:
>>>>><<<<>>>><<<<<
A larger, hollow alloy wrench. Lighter weight trades damage for faster swings, but a strong 2-handed blow with this monster will send your foe flying several meters. The Engineer's hatred for enemy Spies is evident when the Bash Away! connects and the little sap-sucker is thrown across the room!

@Anonymous: Your idea for the Lifeburster wouldn't make much sense in a fast respawn server and would defeat the purpose of arena servers.
I think trading Ubercharge capability for up to 4 'healing pulses' and heals your target 25% faster (not *charge* 25% faster) is a fairly balanced sidegrade idea. (And to be really honest, if a Medic's teammate dies, he's kind of failed his job of keeping him alive; but they can always respawn so its no big deal.)

A few more ideas:
scout
Louisville Slugger (replaces primary AND melee weapon)
Deals 75% more damage. Gives scout +50 health. Bonk lasts 50% longer & -25% Bonk snare cooldown. +24 pistol ammo. +15% movement speed. -20% attack speed.
Why? Allows for the melee only scout, the kind that like to sneak up on people and bash them on the head. At the cost of using his shotgun, the scout can still use his pistol for ranged use or his Bonk Energy Drink both of which have bonuses with this baseball bat. The scout loses the powerful shotgun, and since he's no longer lugging that around he can move around more agilely under the influence of Bonk or care a couple more clips for is pistol. (The Bat comes with a special Little League outfit that increases the scout's health by 50?)

sniper
Warmerang (replaces the Kukuri)
level 10 Boomerang
The Aboriginal tribes of Australia long ago invented a type of boomerang to use in actual warfare, they called it the "Warmerang" and now the tf2 sniper has brought it out of the outback and onto the front lines.
This weapon is made of a lightweight, but durable wood and has several sharp, metal protrusions for added destruction. Although weaker in melee combat than the Kukuri, the Warmerang's alt fire allows the sniper to throw it with significant force (aim similar to the Sandman's ball) and automatically crits on targets that are Jarated and mini-crits on those on fire.
However, unlike what most people like to think about Boomerangs, this weapon does not come back to you when you throw it*. It will lay on the ground near where it hit until you pick it up (or if you acquire enough ammo, you'll spawn a new one), until you pick it back up the sniper loses his melee weapon, having to resort to his bare hands if things get hairy. But don't you fret! If you kill someone with your fists, you'll choke them to death (beware, spies!)

Soldier
AR-15 Assault Rifle (maybe needs different/ unique name)
tf2 has pistols, the sniper's smg and the heavy's minigun. It seems to me that one of the most iconic weapons of warfare is woefully unrepresented in tf2, the Assault Rifle.
The AR-15 replaces the soldier's rocket launcher with a 30 round clip that deals a little more damage per bullet than the sniper's smg and has 90 rounds and a quick reload to keep your opponents on their toes.
But the tf2 Soldier is one of only 2 classes with explosive (aka "Blast") damage and I wouldn't trade that in anything. To keep the Soldier's explosive damage a viable option, the AR-15 has an m203 underbelly grenade launcher that's a little stronger than the demoman's primary "pill" launcher, but once fired (using alt fire) the soldier must reload it before he can fire again or even switch weapons. If the grenade hits an enemy on-the-full it will explode catching the target and any of his allies unlucky enough to be standing too close on fire!
The Soldier spawns with 5 m203 grenades (including 1 in the chamber) and it takes a full second to reload the launcher. During this second the soldier is unable to switch weapons or fire the assault rifle.

I am not completely sold with the last 3 ideas. Let me know what you think.

Hash Man Classic: oops, here's the stats for the Engi Wrench
Bash Away! (would look something like this...)
Level 5 Wrench
+75% Attack Speed
-75% Damage
Strong knockback on target, particuarly devastating against Spies.
25% longer melee reach

DanPryce: @Hash Man Classic The trouble with adding an assault rifle it's that it's just so bloody boring. If we wanted to play a game where people shoot machine guns at each other, we'd go to Modern Warfare (or all go Sniper and use the SMG exclusively). As Tom says 'Much of TF2’s design philosophy apparently stemmed from the notion that one guy just firing a lot of bullets at another guy is about the least interesting interaction two players can have.'

I like the idea of a Sniper boomerang. I think it should come back though - otherwise why not just give him throwing knives?

Here's MY ideas (because it's cool to think you can do better than Valve). I haven't read any of the above comments, so if I've done your thing then sorry.

Scout - Roller Blades - Replaces the Pistol. Allows the Scout to move a little faster at the expense of double jumping

Soldier - Drums of the Patriots - Replaces the Shotgun. Essentially an upgrade to the Buff Banner, except it gives players around the Soldier full crits instead of mini crits. The trade off is that the Soldier himself can't fight (he's playing the drum), and both the duration and radius of the effect are reduced.

Pyro - Twisted Firestarter - Replaces the Flamethrower. This flamethrower has a longer range and a deadlier blast, but it's heavier so the Pyro not only moves slower but isn't able to strafe or turn while using it.

Demoman - Whiskey Galore! - Replaces the Grenade Launcher. A pump not to disimilar-looking to a Ghostbusters Proton pack that squirts whiskey. Upon hitting an enemy, that enemy is covered in whiskey and takes fire damage twice as quickly. Not only that but their movement becomes slower and more erratic (the effects of the alcohol) making it easier for the Demoman or teammates to hit them.

Heavy - Olga - Replaces the Minigun. Olga is a mobile gun emplacement that the Heavy can set up, dismantle and re-set up at any point. She cannot be fired during transit, and there is a short wait for assembly and disassembly. To compensate she has unlimited ammo, and the player controls her directly.

Engineer - Supply Locker - Replaces the Dispenser. The Engineer can set up a Supply Locker, like the ones in the spawn rooms, anywhere on the map. It does exactly as it does in there - instantly replenishes health and ammo. But the further away the Engineer builds it from the spawn, the longer it takes to complete - a remote-controlled helicopter has to air-lift supplies from the spawn point to the new locker, and the time it takes to make that journey (indicated by a live camera feed in the corner of the screen) is the build time. During the trip it can be taken down by enemies, but the locker itself is invincible until it arrives so the Engineer can focus on protecting the chopper.

Medic - Chloroform Cocktails - Replaces the Syringe Gun. the Medic spawns with a tank of chloroform on his back, which he uses to fill up bottles with. The bottles throw like Jarate but their effect is to completely immobilise an enemy for ten seconds - they fall to the floor, unconcious, completely open to attack. To avoid spamming, filling up the bottles takes twenty seconds.

Sniper - Crossbow - Replaces the Sniper Rifle. Same strength as the Huntsman (and same effect upon impact) but it's more accurate and you don't need to draw the bolt back like an arrow. The trade off is that you can't carry as much ammo and it takes longer to reload.

Spy - Grapple Gun - Replaces the Revolver. Allows the Spy to grapple to any point within range. Cannot be used while invisible or disguised, unless disguised as an enemy Spy. can be used while carrying intelligence. If used on an enemy, the Spy flies towards them, drawing their knife on the way and delievering a facestab on arrival.

My Team Fortress 2 unlockable ideas. « Dan Pryce's Eternal Loading Screen: [...] 9, 2010 I posted this on Tom Francis’s blog just now, but figured I’d repost it here because Lord knows this place could do with some [...]

Hash Man Classic: @DanPryce "The trouble with an assault rifle it's that it's boring...If we wanted to play a game where people shoot machine guns at each other, we'd go to Modern Warfare"
>Yeah, I agree with you completely on that point. I still think there should be at least a Tommy Gun-like SMG in a game like TF2; definitely within the right era (1920-50s, right?).
"Here's MY ideas (because it's cool to think you can do better than Valve)"
>True dat, brother :-)

>I really like your aforementioned ideas for Scout, Heavy and Spy, but I could see Spies *really, really, REALLY* abusing the Grapple Gun to get backstabs on their targets if they were good enough. And even a short range Grapple would be a godsend for getting out of a sticky situation (only 125hp to play around with, lame). Though its at the cost of his trusty Revolver; that fact alone may just balance it out.
>Roller Blades? Ha! As if Scout needed any speed boost; but loss of doublejumps makes it palatable.
>Sorry, I'm in love with Olga. Er, well, almost. If you didn't know, Heavy's "Sasha" minigun does about as much damage as a level 2 sentry (in-range), but doesn't automatically fire when an enemy is present. This can be used to great effect; for instance: with a dispenser on the last control point on dustbowl A a Heavy can set himself up as a "living sentry gun"; and I think that is what DanPryce wanted with "Olga".
>I like how Olga has unlimited ammo (though, it might need a cooldown?) and how it is (apparently) invulnerable to damage (as in: attacking Olga doesn't deal damage to her Heavy) though the tradeoff is pretty steep: can't attack when not deployed, and takes several seconds to deploy/disassemble! Now, this would be a good disadvantage if there were only some way to mitigate it a little.
>How about this: carrying the weighty "Olga" requires the Heavy to wear a harness around his torso to aid in even weight distribution (as in: although Olga is much heavier than Sasha or Natasha, the harness compensates for the Heavy's off center-of-gravity) so his movement speed remains Unaffected. Also, the extra metal and padding of the harness gives the Heavy some minor damage reduction: 45% Bullet resist, 30% Blast resist.
>Without damage reduction, an Olga-wielding Heavy is particularly vulnerable since A) he can't quickly fire his primary weapon B) often times Heavies swap their shotguns for Sanviches and C) Heavies are too slow to chase down and attack enemies in melee range.

>However, I don't particularly care for some of your other ideas.
>Drums of the Patriots......Er, Buff Banner 2.0?
Sorry, no thanks. Buff Banner is decent enough as it is (though I wouldn't mind the banner giving its wearer a buff....even 25hp would be nice!)
>
>Chloroform Cocktails & Whiskey Galore!
>I'm NOT a fan of slowing/snaring abilities in TF2. So far only Heavy's Natasha can slow an enemy and I personally think it should stay that way. Since Heavies are naturally slow, Natasha can only effect targets her Heavy can hit, and when fighting with Natasha both Heavy and his enemies are *EQUALLY* slowed down.
>Simply spraying you enemies in alcohol won't make them drunk. Depending on the amount of water in the alcohol, there's no guarantee that a saturated enemy will even catch on fire.....besides, we already have the Sniper's Jarate that does A)+100% Mini-Crits on target and B) Visual distortion on target; which sounds like what Whiskey Galore! wants to do.
>Same deal with Chloroform Cocktails, even with a 20 second recharge this weapon's ability is *very* powerful. Assuming the Chloroform shatters and soaks the same way as Jarate, a well placed Cocktail could *completely* nullify a small attacking force for TEN SECONDS! That essentially spells death for the Medic's victims as they have no choice but to watch the Medic run up to their paralyzed bodies with a bonesaw.
>I'M NOT SURE ABOUT YOU, but being paralyzed for 10 seconds potentially every 20 seconds or so would *RUIN* TF2 as we know and love. Medic is the second fastest class, giving him a weapon to paralyze his opponents is a no-no!
>However, if I where to change the Medic's current Syringe Guns it would be this: Blutsager (health stolen from target based on low % of damage dealt; Medic otherwise has slow health regen). Syringe Gun (target has %50 chance of being slowed when hit; Medic has faster health regen)
>Why give the standard Syringe Gun the capability to slow when earlier I said only Heavy's Natasha should? Because it would make the normal Syringe Gun a much more defensive weapon (you'd whip it out and start backpedaling+firing when your Medigun target becomes overwhelmed and there are no other teammates near to help you so you must run away to find another) and unlike Natasha's 100% chance to slow, the modified Syringe Gun would only have like a 50% chance.
>The modified Blutsager would *STEAL* around 20-22% of the damage it deals (each needle does 8-14 damage which means about 1.6-3.5hp stolen per hit) making this weapon good for combat medics finishing off an enemy and decent for retreating from your enemies too, but the Medic's passive hp regeneration is, of course, slowed.
>
>Crossbow. I don't like this idea. Not because its a "bad" idea, but since its basically its the Huntsman, slightly mechanized. Less ammunition and slower reload (doesn't sound fun, IMHO) would make the Sniper really have to work for his kills.Then again, the "point-and-shoot Crossbow" seems a lot like a gun to me. Might as well put a scope on the Crossbow and call it the Sniper Rifle.
>
>Supply Locker. Yeah, I like the idea of setting up a Resupply Cabinet for my team's frontliners, but I don't think it will ever happen. Valve might introduce a Dispenser sidegrade, but it won't be this.
>And the remote-controlled helicopter w/ live-feed camera as the structure's Build Time?......Interesting, even ingenious, but isn't going to happen.
>
>Twisted Firestarter. Among the classes, Pyros typically don't survive very long. Their job is to run to the enemy, set a bunch of people on fire and *try* to make it out alive. Pyros are small, fast and do their best in close quaters.
But your Twisted Firestarter would slow her speed down, but make her flame even more powerful than it already is (Flame damage is something that should NOT be messed with!). Flamethrowers deal a LOT of damage at close range, add that with up to a 50 damage Afterburn effect and maybe you'll understand why a flamethrower with increased range and damage is not a fun idea. Also, not being able to strafe or turn while firing your flamethrower sounds pretty lame too.
>
>Instead, how about this for a Pyro's Flamethrower sidegrade?:
>
>The Gasblaster (replaces flamethrower)
level 15 flamethrower
-40% flamethrower range
Your target's Afterburn effect ends 40% faster
+50% ammo capacity (basically, you start with 300 ammo)
+60% Compression Blast firing speed
+33% Compression Blast knockback* and reflected projectile speed
+25% Compression Blast radius and length
Gasblaster-wielding Pyros lose a great deal of their offense since their flamethrower's range is much shorter and their ignited foes' flame dies out quicker too; but do NOT be fooled: when an enemy is close enough to be hit by the Gasblaster's flamejet they will be hit for the same amount of damage as if hit by the regular flamethrower at the same distance. This is the Pyro's specialized compression blast device; a redesigned nozzle lets the Gasblaster spend its fuel more efficiently allowing for more frequent, forceful and larger blasts. Compression Blasts cost 30 ammunition now, but the Pyro carries an extra 100 ammunition (allowing for 10 Blasts before reloading instead of 8). With the Gasblaster the Pyro's focus shifts from offense to defense/offensive support: she can blowback Spies nearing an Engineer's buildings, reflect projectiles & explosives away from your teammates, breaking/stalling Ubercharges, etc.
*Also: cool ability = the compression blast from the Gasblaster has an added bonus over the standard flamethrower. When pointed at the ground and fired, the compression blast will boost the Pyro into the air at about the height of a Scout after jumping once and firing his FaN.

DanPryce: @Hash Man Classic

To be honest, I picked names I thought were cool and tried to work something around those. Valve would kick my ass if I turned up to a meeting with those ideas.

MasterMind: These all sound great especially the spy gadgets!!!

Toadmyster: Make a lasoo for the Engineer, that'll replace the pistol. Give it the same length and programming as the smoker's tongue from L4D, and make it drag metal to him, fallen weapons of broken machine parts i.e. a demolished dispenser. Give him a taunt-kill when he flails it like a whip, and cracks it.

Also, give it a 10 second recharge after metal is snagged. Crosshair goes red or bblue when metal in in range, then swing and go into third person ACTION!

Toadmyster: PS: Another Engie idea--

A heavy belt that gives him 300 metal, rather than 200. This belt will negate ALL KNOCKBACK-- This means he's immune to airblasts, Force-a-Nature knockback, Demoman/Soldier blast movement and crits from melee weapons (Yes, they do slightly move you).
\A downside to this is it replaces the pistol, and you will recieve greater fall damage from jumping, as the belt is heavier.

Do not make him jump lower, but reduce him to imbetween Demo's and Soldier's speed. Also, increase his health by 25.

------------------------

For the wrench, make a faster one, with the power of scout's bat,, but the speed. Now, this may seem useless, but he can repair, upgrade and build faster, as the wrench swings faster. Unfortunately, this will only make the machines evolve to a max level of 2.

Toadmyster: PSS: Make Engie's lasoo look like his extension cord.

Anonymous: i think the engie shoul

Anonymous: I think the engie should have a shotgun called the multiplier, when he first spawns the multiplier does only 5 total damage, but on each successfull hit the dammage is doubled 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 160 is where it stops, it kinda works like the demmoman's eyelander, so in conclusion

Multipier3=death6/2

Multiplier=Death

Jakob: This isent acuatly a new upgrade. More like a new effect for the new "chocolate bar" heavy received.
The Dalokohs Bar
Gives movement speed equal to sniper,spy ect. for ten seconds
"eating" speed increased by 40%
However under the effect you cannot attack. So its used for arriving quicker to the frontline. And escaping.
I came up with the idea since its current effect sucks. And chocolate in RL have lots of sugar. (I am sorry about horrible grammar and writing)

Anonymous: engie should have traps in build set v.2 along with other things, and he can build a limited amount of traps.

Bear trap-when stepped on reduces speed to 50%, makes loud clanging sound when walking, and disables double jumping and charging, and can only be taken off by resuply cabenet.

Tripwire- 75% chance falls over and cant shoot or move for 3 secs, 25%chance stumbles fward for certain distance untill hits wall or falls over, and canot shoot when stumbleing

Fling pad- when an enemy steps on it...BOING they go flying in the direction you want, away from vital points into veiws of sentries ect.

Anonymous: build set v2

Sheild generator- emits team colored spere that enemy shots cant go through, and has low health, but high sheild health that regenerates, but engie can also use his wrench

lvl 1 20 health, 500 sheild health 10hp per sec

lvl2 30 health, 600 sheild health 15 hp per sec

lvl 3 40 health 700 sheild health 20 hp per sec, and acts like lvl 1 despenser

(dont know what to call)
is a slow moving platform on treads that gets more health and goes faster as it levels up, and you and other engeneers can build buildings on. you can control where it goes.

Traps (explained above)

Tonic cabinet
has different tonics that your teammates can take that do different things, and can't drink other tonics untill it wears off lvl-ing up will provide more tonics, all tonics have "side effects" when they wear off, where the screen will go blurry and your charicter's veiw will go in different directions, and sometimes momenarily inability to breathe

Blue tonic- health regen tonic- regens 10 hp per sec for 30 secs

Red tonic- Makes you do things faster, run, reload, shoot, and recharge whatever for 30 secs

Green tonic- if you die under the effects of the green tonic, you will have five secs to do something to save yourself, or give one last blast to the enemy that killed you, lasts 1 min

Yellow tonic-minni crit?

TF2: New Solly and Demo weapon unlocks revealed « GameSync: [...] health gets lower. The idea was taken directly from the player community, which you can read about here and [...]

Anonymous: How about Kasha for the heavy?

Positives:
150% damage

Negatives:
-20% speed
completely stationary when reved
2 second rev-up time

This would make the heavy more of a defenceive class like he's supposed to be, since the rev-up time and him standing still makes it harder for an assult. And him standing still would make him a much easier target for snipers.

Alexander: It looks like the idea of the laser pointer was added more or less in the new info. Somewhat the shield spanner also

Valve Steal Third And Fourth James Weapon Ideas, by Tom Francis: [...] really, of course: the newly announced Wrangler is a more intricate beast than my Laser Pointer or Shield Spanner suggestions. It sounds ridiculous: not only do you get to direct your Sentry’s fire, but [...]

Kost: Amazingly, the laserpointer was kinda put into the game (WRANGLER)

PsychoKiller: VALVE should give credit for the creator of the Laser Pointer,(or just valve stole his idea)

Anonymous: The Blastmaster for the soldier
+50% damage
+100% blast radius
mini crits on multiple enemys

-75% clip size
-70 ammo held
+100 reload time

How Valve Is Designing Their Community’s Behavior | Just Make The Game: [...] new weapon, somebody on the forums claims they thought of it first. But this time, assuming it’s Tom Francis and jibberish, they are absolutely correct. As a special thanks to them for doing our work for us, [...]

The Random One: Valve took another of your ideas! Can't wait to backstab/insta-disguise.

Tom Francis: Heh, it's not far off. I was trying to follow a set of rules I thought Valve had at the time, so I couldn't posit a knife that restricted your disguising ability. That bit is in the Identi-kit though.

Delacroix: Expect your Self-Made Your Eternal Reward in the mail, Mr. Pentadact. As it removes your ability to disguise, the indenti kit is pretty much a complete upgrade if it's implementable!

Looking forward for the introduction of Not-Sticky-Bombs, an valve adaption of Not-A-Grenade-Launcher.

Mechlord: Which unlocks did you NOT think of?

Pendact is credit to team!

Valve Steal Sixth James Weapon Idea, Sell It, by Tom Francis: [...] item that’s closest to one of my suggestions, the knife that rapidly steals your victim’s identity, is a total bust. The ability itself is [...]

Elusive: I wanted to post some ideas here, since i found the best ones here. Since in real life good shoes are crucial to the PRO (don't mean gaming pro, but in general), and footwear hasn't been done much i came up with 3 types of shoe's (names are not great and quickly thought up):

*Playground Pumps (basketball style/type of shoes)
+20% Jump Height

-10% Speed
(to add to the 2nd jump or complement the 3rd with the new Force-A-Nature)
(think -10% speed is enough since he heavily relies on speed)


*Scottish Sprinters (sprint style/type of shoes)
+20% Speed

-10% Health and/or replaces sticky nades
(for the very offensive demoman)


*The Two Faced Pace (tennis/skate/classic Adidas style/type of shoes)
+10% Speed
+10% Faster disguise
+ Backstabs (if succesfull) add 20% cloack

-30% Cloack Time or 30% faster drain with C&D /DR

Force the fast paced hit-and-run frontline spy.
In these days with 32 player servers (i know....) a very mobile spy is 1 way to keep the psy strong and going. He drains is cloack FAST, but gains it fast to. Why? To hit and run. When you fail a lot you run out of cloack quickly, but if you know where to find ammo AND succesfully stab a fair percantage of targets you can hit, and run, and cloack, and hit......

Please let me know what you think. The type of shoes should be obvious, picture team colours and types of shoes should slightly differ in detail and colour layout.

John: From a time where Engie couldn't haul his buildings, Pyro didn't have the air blast, and Spy's backstab took 11 seconds to execute.

Harley: "Why not an assault rifle?"

There were no assault rifles in the 60s, when TF2 takes place.

Harley: Also,
Bat-Daisy Cutter. A small knife with a stronger swing but a slower one.

Nonomu198: @Harely, you know, just like the minigun, the medigun, the sticky launcher... I hope you get my point.

Besides, the AK-47 has been around since the late 40's. Don't be ridiculous.

Harry: I av a few ideas fit the spy tell me what you think an how to improve plz
The lightning dagger
50% faster stab
Critz after kill for 3 secs
No rAndam critz
-20 damage to front

Quick change

20% faster movement
30% faster regenerate cloak
75% faster cloak decloak and disguise
Only 6 secs of cloak
No cloak pickup from ammo
-20 health

Harry: I don't know why but the ubergun
Add 1% uber on hit
No randam critz

Harry: What intregues me is the fact that most of the ideas have been used in the game!!

Charlie: Criticize me.
Sniper Unlock
Billabong
"A sniper rifle attached to a shield"
-While unscoped, shield blocks part of the screen
-While scoped, invulnerable to jarate, mad milk, etc.
-While scoped, 50% damage taken
-Attack cannot be charged
-No Criticals

It would work pretty well with the razerback.

Zachary360: Lulz cause alot of this stuff has been implemented into the game... I'd say this guy deserves a Community edition of all the weapons!!!! And Just look how many weapon there are that are actually in the game now!!! This post was a while ago...

Nice Unlock photos — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

let-me-in — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

Demoman: No Grenade Launcher — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

Sniper: Croc — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

Engy: Laser Pointer — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

Cool Unlock images — Yivie.Com: [...] http://www.pentadact... ...2-un…; [...]

TF2: New Solly and Demo weapon unlocks revealed « « No Game No TalkNo Game No Talk: [...] health gets lower. The idea was taken directly from the player community, which you can read about here and here.Not to be left out, the Demoman will receive The Scottish Resistance, an upgrade sticky [...]

NotBatman: I'm really impressed with this post. I was reading your TF2 guides and even though I've been playing for about 2 years, they are really solid guides that help refresh me on what I need to be teaching new players. I was amazed that almost all of the ideas that you presented here have been implemented in the game, so well done. Maybe you should have a direct link to Valve for future updates

Tom Francis: Heh, cheers!

Anonymous: Why I ideas for the medic?

Caleb: Anonymous, I assume you mean "Why no ideas for the medic?" That's because Tom posted this just after the very first content update came out that added the medic items, so he was coming up with ideas for the other classes.

Andrew: How about a new medigun for the medic that gets nerfed in some way (self healing, team healing, or uber charge) but adds ammo to the healing of your target. basically so you dont get stuck in enemy territory without ammo.

zuhikal: 8541gberidse

Cian: Harley: "Why not an assault rifle?"

There were no assault rifles in the 60s, when TF2 takes place.

There was the MP44, Germany in WW2 - first gun classified as an assault rifle (AFAIK, but 90% certain)

Moving on, how about a spy knife slot-thingy, but it is a pair of scissors. Bear with me
If used on a sentry gun, it could cut an ammo-belt, thereby getting rid of half the current ammo, leaving it dry twice as fast?
Also, to counter-act that, a 50% damage reduction in melee.

Church: In hindsight, it is astounding how uncannily accurate your predictions were.

Syrahl: Reading this page 4 years after it was made, 5 weapons on here made it in the game virtually unchanged, and 2 had minor changes but are still recognisable.

weewlySar: ÿþ[

J. Stuewe (Samniss Arandeen): Your work creating weapons (and your accurate predictions) have inspired me to do some TF2 creation of my own. I just want to say, thank you.

Dickfart: Shit man, a lot of things you suggested here made it into the game in some way.

Owen Simpson: These are my 9 primary weapon ideas (PDA for Engineer)

Demoman

The Nuke Launcher:
+100% damage bonus
Bombs explode when they hit any surface
+50% explosion radius
-25% clip size
+1000% damage to self
-15% slower firing speed

Pyro

The Wide Fire:
+100% fire range
-25% damade penalty
-30% afterburn damage penalty

Soldier

The Big One
+100% rocket size
+75% explosion radius
-25% damage penalty
Rockets travel in an arc

Scout

The Rusty scattergun
+30% damage bonus
-15% slower firing speed
-15% slower reload speed

Heavy

Golden Minigun
+150% clip size
+20% faster spin up time
-45% damage penalty
-30 max health on wearer

Engineer

Spy sensor
Sentries can detect spies even if they're cloaked or disguised
-75 max health on wearer

Medic

The Ubergun
On hit, 2% ubercharge added
+25% clip size
-30% damage penalty
-10% slower firing speed

Sniper

The quick charge
+40% base charge rate
-10% damage on body shot

Spy

The model 500
+20% damage bonus
No random critical hits
-17% clip size

Owen Simpson: I am now going to tell you my melee weapon ideas plus primary for engineer and watch for spy

Scout:

Flaming kebab

On hit: Target is engulfed into flames
-100% damage to self
-35% damage penalty
On miss: hit yourself. Idiot

Soldier:

Shield on a pickaxe

Grants 25% to each resistance on wearer
Blocks healing while equipped
-20% damage penalty

Pyro:

Giant stool

+25% damage bonus
-20% slower firing speed

Demoman:

Muggy

+100% faster firing speed
-75% damage penalty

Heavy:

Fists of stone

+20 max health on wearer
-15% damage penalty
-10% slower firing speed

Engineer:

(Primary) Hot shot

On hit any weapon: Target is engulfed into flames
-5 health drained every 2 seconds on wearer

(Melee) Hammer

+1000% damage vs sappers
-100% construction speed affection

Medic:

Dummkopf sharpie

On hit: Bleed for 6 seconds
On miss: Hit yourself. Idiot

Sniper:

Sneaky shahanshah

Always critical hit from behind
-20% damage penalty

Spy:

(Melee) Springer stick

Backstabs push the enemy really far away
Backstabs do no damage

(Watch) The absorber

No damage taken while disguised as an enemy
-100% cloak drain rate
-3 health drained per second on wearer
-90% health from healers on wearer

Meep: Most are very good, some very bad. :c

Ian: What about a Crosslink that lets you turn off the lights?

Joeakuaku: A lot of these have been added!

Question about Gunpoint? Try the Gunpoint FAQ! Question about Heat Signature? There's one for that too! Question about Game Maker, Unity, tools? They're covered in both!

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